Entertainment Earth

FREE LEGOยฎ NEXO KNIGHTSTM Intro Pack with any purchase!

Wal-Mart.com USA, LLC

Entertainment Earth

Ask Mattel June 1st
Link Roundup (Updated)



Ask Matty – June 1st Edition

DCClassics.Com Asks: The DC Death Staction is listed at 8″ – does that include the base or is that the specific height of the figure?

The base makes her even taller. It adds about 2 inches.

DCClassics.Com Asks: Will the Club Infinite Earths Platinum feature any clip-on accessories beyond the Tin pack-in?

No.

MOTUClassics.Com Asks: It appears collectors that inadvertantly ordered their MOTU Subscription and 30th Anniversary subscriptions with different shipping methods are experiencing the most difficulty with getting their subs combined. Many are having to go through a second round of shipping refunds. Is this something that should be fixed prior to Snake MAA or will the double shipping and refunds continue through the remaining three figures?

Yes, if you ordered your subs with different shipping methods they will not ship together. It was up to customers to order their subs with the same shipping method to have them ship together. If customers call the CS department, they can adjust this for them.

DCClassics.Com Asks: How much new tooling can we expect in the initial 2013 offerings for Club Infinite Earths? Has the DC CIE team been authorized to go all-out on one or two figures to encourage subscription signups or should we expect the early 2013 figures to be built much like the 2012 offerings?

The 2012 sub sales set the tooling budget for 2013. Because the sub just barely sold in, the tooling in 2013 will be very light. If the 2013 sub sells well (better) we can look at doing more highly tool’d figures in 2014. We always work about 2 years ahead, so product on sale now is helping to determine what product will come out in 2 years.


MOTUClassics.Com Asks:
To further expand on the Griffin bio, we enjoyed the decision to make them non-indigenous to Eternia. What was in mind that motivated that particular aspect of the bio?

This was an added detail to really play up that not everything happens on Eternia and there is a larger Universe out there in “Masters of the Universe”.

We need your questions for the next round!
Submit your suggestions on the ItsAllTrue.net Forums…

Ask Mattel Around the Web: Red Links Are Active

125 comments to Ask Mattel June 1st
Link Roundup (Updated)

  • dayraven

    um… good to know they’re working on a brock figure… but IH got the weirdest answer ever there.

    • We submit via an Excel spreadsheet, but Mattel sends them back as the body of an e-mail. I think there are some copy/paste issues sometimes…

  • Brainlock

    IH: Power Sword – does Nerf have the market cornered on foam play items?
    (Not sure who owns Nerf, but Hasbro did Mjolnir!)

    KK: GB Mystery figure. surely they can’t mean the glo-Slimer??
    I’m thinking “I’ll believe anything for a Paycheck” Winston (only non-suit GB) or maybe the GL-MM Hammond body for Louis? (surely not GB-Louis??) StayPuft-Slimed Peck???

    ToyArk seems to be the original place for that Brock reply? someone crossed some wires, there.

    Elkk – the DC Action League is still a thing? I haven’t seen them anywhere since the Xma$ clearance around here! and that was only a handful of stores that still bothered!

    • I’ve seen the Flashpoint wave is sporadic Wal-Marts. WM is getting really nitpicky about where they’ll put superhero toys. It’s annoying.

    • Beedo Sookcool

      I seem to remember an electronic Power Sword, made by Mattel, certainly one for the “Space He-Man” saga, if not one for the Millennial MOTU. And I also recall seeing a Snake Armour role-paly set with pop-out blades.

      So, according to Infinite Hollywood’s set of replies, Mattel has a “no blades policy,” do they? SINCE WHEN, LAST WEEK?!!

      Liars.

      • I wasn’t sure what the disconnect on that question was – Mattel’s not going to make an “authentic” metal power sword – “Child’s toy company make deadly weapon! News at 11!”, but they could make a role play one and it would sell pretty well.

        Maybe they should skip the sword and go for a Havoc staff replica and see how that sells?

        • dayraven

          the last couple years have seen some really cool improvements in LARP-grade high density foam weapons. we’ve seen some nice stuff from several fantasy and video game properties, so it’s completely feasible that mattel could enter that arena… if the brand manager were thinking like that, and not just mugging for his too-far-away vidcam.

          • At the Org, TG jumped in and clarified that he meant they don’t make metal swords (since the question was referencing prop replicas).

            I’m down for some fun nerf-type MOTU gear. It’d be fun!

            • Heli

              Maybe their foam weapons will have authentic Stay Puft/Snout Spout style “battle damage” after you own them for a month or two.

              I think plastic would be a safer choice.

              • dayraven

                point taken good sir, point taken.

              • LOL I have to technically point out that Snout Spout is just regular (albeit, crappy brittle) bendy and not foam, but you’re absolutely right!

                I’ve been wondering about the lifespan on that rubber batman suit for the DKR SDCC exclusive.

  • Dr Kain

    So basically don’t expect Doomsday, Granny Goodness, or Killer Croc in 2013 either. -_- I think it is time to just put DCU to rest while it still has dignity.

    • I really don’t like this line of thought. It’s similar to the people who continually try to tell me “the line is dead” despite the fact that I got a sweet Jay Garrick figure just this month and Atrocitus & Metron will be on their way soon.

      I’m as disappointed as the next collector that there’s not likely to be a 100% tool figure like Granny in next year’s intial offering, but I don’t see how it’s all that detrimental. The vast majority of the line was done, and done well by my measure, with new heads and a handful of new parts. The 2012 sub looks fantastic with the exception of Rocket Red – which is a mix of poor choice and scale than execution – so I still expect to be wowed by the 2013 stuff even if there’s a handful of characters (that I really want) off the table.

      • dayraven

        he’s wearing a giant white diaper… that’s a fail of execution.

        • If you don’t like the diaper, that’s on Ivan Reis. I’m not a fan of the design at all, but the figure matches it.

          • dayraven

            it does not look nearly as diaperlike in the drawings. it’s integrated into the design, which the figure could do, had they sculpted him new hips. instead, they chose the glue on appliance, which yields the diaper.

            • Not nearly as diaperlike, but diaperlike nonetheless. Had they sculpted new hips, which I would’ve been totally for, folks would still be complaining about the diaper as the third worst thing behind the costume choice and the scale.

      • Dr Kain

        Uh, Red Rocket? Are you talking about that Cobra Commander who joined the Oktober Guard figure? If so, yes, that is a dreadful figure. I am so glad I am not being charged $45 for that piece of crap, but $30 is bad enough. It does not even look like Red Rocket at all.

  • Braystreet

    Killer Croc really only needs newly sculpted arms to be at a DCUC level, beyond the chest joint. It’s possible that they could reuse the DC Superheroes mold with standard DCUC legs if the torso can be made compatible, given that the first DCUC internet exclusive Jay Garrick used standard legs as jeans, then it would simply be an issue of giving him boots, which I wouldn’t put it past Mattel to simply paint on.

    Of course, the expense of remolding the chest joint would possibly be too much for poor ol’ Mattel.

    • Brainlock

      Jay wears JEANS for his costume? First I heard of it, even if the box art shows that to be the case.

      (oh, and AFi has posted their answers this morning, too.)

      • Got AFi, thanks!

        Yeah, the artwork with the jeans is what’s wrong, not the figure. The figure is great is almost spot-on (missing the wings on his boots).

    • dayraven

      you are talking about the folks who couldn’t get ivy’s hands changed 6 months in advance… retooling killer croc must seem like opening a stargate over there.

      • Ivy’s on the smaller Sapphire buck, so no hands match her. Personally, I’d rather have had a new open hand than the leafy attachments, but I haven’t polled others on what newly tooled piece they’d prefer.

  • Dr Kain

    It’s going to take more than that. Croc needs to be big, like Kilowog big.

    • I liked Croc better year ago when he was more subtle & creepy, but I wouldn’t be opposed to the modern Croc.

      • dayraven

        honestly, the DCD croc coming from AA pretty much fills my desire for the big creatury croc… so if dcu did one, i’d like to see his more human incarnation, but i don’t know if mattel would let the horsemen sculpt the kind of creepy that he exhibited (not to mention, they abhor textural details)… they seem content to leave that kind of sculpting to dcd.

        as for atrocitus, you like the painted boots, face that isn’t deep enough, and the lack of rage vomit? i know you love the DCU line noisy, but it sure sounds like they’re cruising towards the cheapest year of reuse to date, and the line is kind of hallmarked by excusing failures of execution due to parts sharing (when they’re not making all new parts for no reason to reduce articulation). big A can’t hold his lantern, and he’s shorter than skallox… is that not a fail of execution?

        • I don’t understand the desire for more pink rage vomit. I’m all for folks getting the accessories they want, but I personally won’t miss another spout of vomit sitting in my toy box. The painted boots are by request, though they weren’t much different in the end, and I’m fine with the head sculpt from the pics so far. My only real issue with him so far is that he can’t hold his lantern. And, in a perfect world, some red constructs would be nice.

          The tooling is about on par with 2011 when we went from getting 100+ pieces in a wave to about thirty across six figures. And this should be the cheapest year, shouldn’t? We’ve got fewer units moving and the price is still $15. The only hope we really had was cutting out the retailer would allow for more to be spent on the figure, but we don’t know how much the higher cost per unit ate up in relation to that.

          • Tom McCraw

            I agree with you Noisy. Sure we could all want super, cool, newly 100% sculpted figures. But Matty has admitted that they have a restrained budget and are trying to deliver what they can with mostly new heads and accessories on generic buck figures. At least we aren’t just getting a rainbow of Superman figures and Green Lantern Corps with just a new head on a GL costume buck. I see them trying and so far I’m pleased. There are several figures that would be easy enough to do. (Elongated Man – simple figure with some Plastic Man extensions, Capt. Marvel Jr. – teen buck with Mary’s cape, Rita Farr – Giganta body, Phantom Stranger – buck with a suit, etc.) They keep doing these sort of ideas and I’m a happy camper. And I’ll hope for Granny, Highfather, Croc, Starro and Doomsday at a later date. Would I like them to advertise the Signature Collection to drive up the membership to insure the club? Sure. Will it happen, that I am skeptical about. We will have to see what happens at SDCC.

            • Elongated Man, Phantom Stranger, CM3, and Elasti-Girl as the oversized figure would be a fantastic quarterly line-up!!

              I hear the folks that are upset about the lack of a 100% tool – we need Granny, Starro, etc., but Mattel has done some great figures with a lot less. As long as keep getting those and not Green Lantern Batman or Thanagarian Superman I’ll stay a happy camper.

        • Dr Kain

          Dayraven, I think the DCD AA Croc looks awesome, but like all DCD figures, he is going to be crap. DCD’s figures are fragile to the point that their joints break if you look at them wrong, and they haven’t figured out how to use this wonderful technology called articulation. Sure, they have gotten better, if they were releasing these toys 5 years ago, but they seem to be on the deedeedee side when it comes to doing leg and waist articulation. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to copy what Mattel has done with the leg articulation, so I have no idea what it is so hard for DCD to do it.

          • dayraven

            for most folks though, he’s just going to stand there looking awesome on a shelf anyway… i’m taking a risk on him, he’ll be my first DCD fig… i have read the fragile comments before on that line, and i’m hoping that he’s thick enough to keep that from being too much of a problem… but i know i’m buying a marvel select fig either. keeping my fingers crossed that croc will survive some light play.

          • Tribsaint

            Personally , The DCD Secert Files Killer Crocis the best Croc.

          • I’ve only had three DCD figures break in all the years I’ve been buying, but those three were all recent releases…

      • Braystreet

        I agree, this trend towards having him be on the same level as Bane or bigger is misplaced, and Jim Lee is primarily responsible. He was a mastermind and a capable sniper in his first few appearances, he doesn’t need to be a giant.

        Although, ironically, one of the best stories featuring Killer Croc in recent years was The Joker’s Asylum: Killer Croc, which featured a Killer Croc seemingly directly inspired by Mattel’s first version.

        I do appreciate what Arkham Asylum and subsequently Arkham City did for him (in a cameo role, even) and I’d be really tempted by the DC Direct Deluxe figure if it had thigh swivels. As it stands, I can’t see him being able to take any kind of primal poses and he’d just be a lump that doesn’t fit in with my collection.

        • The Croc monster is definitely cool, but I always prefer implied terror!

          • dayraven

            spoken by a man who hasn’t played arkham asylum. that croc appearance was all about terror.

            as for the rage vomit, i suppose that pointing out that i too didn’t support the vomit, till it was pointed out that it’s a trait of his powers, and he’s never seen without it. it’s more necessary to him than the lantern… that he can’t hold. it’s more intrinsic to his design than actual constructs would be. it’s as character defining as the color red. that’s an acceptable thing to ask for.

            lastly, the move to online only is a money saving move for mattel. they pay for retail shelf space, and now they don’t… and they raised the price in moving online… so at what point is it not ok that they’re cheaping out on new bits, because their profit margin on this line just went through the roof? sure, in some sense, they’re likely producing fewer units to sell (though i wonder just how many units fewer we’re really talking, since DCU didn’t seem to be a huge hit w/ the average consumer) but when the margin per unit goes way up, i’m sure they’re still making their nut. so the offerings ought to have at least as many new bits as they did when they were at retail.

            • They announced a new retail line at the same time that they announced the sub, so the “moved online to save money” makes no sense. I grant that the freshly installed DC retail time opted to implode the plans of the original team and release only one of the three announced waves this year (whick kinda sucks), but when the sub was crafted, it’s clear they had every intention of keeping figures at retail, so that’s a moot point.

              The price for the subscribers, who provide the lionshare of the sales – unless you want to tell me they blew through thousands of Jay Garricks in half an hour, is still $15, so the price raise is also a moot point. Though you could go for the lack of a C&C part there.

              And they have to be selling fewer units this way. Just take a moment to think about all the Targets, the TRUs, and whatever percentage of Wal-Marts these were in, plus the direct market and smaller operations. All of that is scaled back to DTC from Mattycollector.

              We can go round and round on this. We don’t have specifics. You can assume they’re making money hand over fist on the DC sub line and I can assume they’re not making any more profit than they normally do.

              The bottom line is I’m excited for everything from the DC sub, except Rocket Red, to various degrees. I await Atrocitus. I have issues which I’ll detail in the review, but I must admit I’m near my wit’s end with all the negativity surrouding DC toys of late.

              I’m making a stand in my comments section here and maybe I shouldn’t. But it’s getting silly out there. There are whole other forums I avoid because I’m tired of conspiracy theories that involve Toy Guru twirling his mustache to screw us over or folks bitching about how much the Mattel CEO makes.

              • They have to be making more money. It’s only logical. I’ve run hypothetical numbers in the past and I know it tee’d off a couple of people who replied with the usual “you don’t work for Mattel so you don’t know you DON’T KNOW LALALALALALA YOU MUST BE WRONG” spews. Simple logic. Mattel was configured to make a profit from a figure designed to sell at $15.99 MSRP retail. WHATEVER discounts are in place Mattel is now making the full $15.99 and not whatever fraction thereof that was the result of getting the toy on a peg in a store. They HAVE to be making a much larger margin now.

                Is that good or bad? I dunno. A company has to make a profit to survive. Mattel isn’t a charity. I get that. I could argue they could give up a slice of that increased margin in order to do wonderful things with the CIE line, including accessories, tossing in a number of new tool figures mixed with repaints and reuse, but I do think we are forgetting the elephant in the room, to wit: Green Lantern Movie toys TANKED. Tanked HUGE. Hella lotta development money and tooling went into all those pegwarmers. I’m sure every Major Retailer maxed out their return allowance. The shockwave of that crash is bound to echo thru Mattel’s superhero lines for years. And god forbid the new Batman Movie toys dog out! (I suspect they will.)

                • I don’t think they are making a ton more money. I know the same ins and outs as you do and I don’t believe it to be any more logical than my position. Sorry.

                  • Wait, hang on. I’m NOT saying Mattel is making a ton MORE money, all I’m saying is they MUST be making higher margin on CIE. But are they moving the same number of units, or does the higher margin wash due to lower volume? I assume that since the Club was ‘go’ the calculations meant black ink on the ledger but from comments Mattel has made nowhere NEAR the volume they would prefer (note: PREFER, not NEED to be profitable. If the sub numbers didn’t meet costs they wouldn’t do the club).

                    The point being those calculations were done, I’m guessing, without any ‘cushion’ to account, allow for the massive red ink that the Green Lantern Movie toys (and it seems they’re not laying a cushion for the weak Dollar as well) generated. Heck, I assume they had an entire Green Lantern Animated line ready to go and I would assume that got killed (wouldn’t shock me if they end up appearing in Europe, again assuming if there is such a line) and all THAT money would have to be ‘paid back’ by the other DC toys that aren’t Batman Movie.

                  • dayraven

                    dude, of all the places you should feel safe to state your opinion, of course you’re making a stand here. where else would you?

                    what i think steve and i are both saying is not that you shouldn’t feel good about the toys you’re getting… you’re buying them, you’re allowed to like them. what i think we’re both at is, there is a reality that isn’t being talked about, somewhere between “i hate everything” and “i love the whole lot” and we’re kind of searching for where that middle ground is.

                    i don’t think the faults that we see are limited to rocket red, so in that sense, i don’t think either of us believes you’re being objective. i also don’t think we’re asking you to, we just want to know if objective exists and what it thinks. are there things to like about this line? sure. metron and his chaise of psychedelia are cool looking, no doubt there, and it’s a lot of plastic and paint repped there. atrocitus kind of splits the dif though, some of the sculpt details on the new parts are cool… but the re-use hurts him, i don’t think it’s fair to posit otherwise. from the waist down, he’s a jazzwares fig, he’s only cool from the waist up. hell, even that isn’t entirely fair, the last generation of jazzwares mortal kombat stuff had more sculpt detail!

                    just saying brother, you’re getting defensive over the DCIE and you’re not under attack. you’re not making the toys, you’re just buying them. like your retort about them moving DCIE online… that was to make money. they’re a business, they make moves to make money. they’re not selling these things at cost to you, not from kmart, and not from mattycollector. there’s no need to get defensive, we’re having a conversation, not an argument. so “moved online to make money” is absolutely true, and does make sense. if they stop the line entirely, they stop that revenue stream. as it is, they’ve still got you and plenty of other folks buying in. the question at hand is, are you getting what you’re paying for? are you getting what you were paying for 6 months ago, and is it the same value 6 months from now… it’s the kind of micro-managed speculation that geeks thrive on. if we can’t discuss it here, where would you like us to go?

                    • It’s not that I feel attacked, it’s just that from the DCnU to the GI Joe movie being pushed back, us nerds just seem to be up in arms from one thing to another, moreso of late. I’ve read some hissy fits out there in regards to Mattel/DC lately and it’s enough to drive me crazy. I’m not opposed to that discussion here at IAT, but my polished mood has already been worn off elsewhere and well in advance.

                      Having said that, I honestly feel probably just about as objective as I’m sure you or Steve feel. Though I understand that’s the nature of the beast.

                      I think these early offerings are very good from that “objective” stand point. Jay could’ve used a young head, but I enjoy the vac-u helmet, Atrocitus does sport an accessory (finally a 4H Red Lantern) and they did change out his legs like we asked (better or worse*), Starman’s getting a second head, Black Mask & Mirror Master have some fun accessories.

                      * – To get specific for one moment, I can’t complain about Atrocitus’ boots – I personally campaigned for those PE shins to be swapped in there and we got them to do it! To turn back around and get upset over the sculpted boots, to me, would feel like one of the reasons Mattel shouldn’t interact with us. Plus, I don’t know how tall it actually makes him because I’ve learned to not trust a height comparison picture until I take it, but that’s neither here nor there.

                      The problem is that I think we get too easily distracted. Something like Hal Jordan no. 13’s lantern? Not really important, it feels like a cause we just accumulate to maintain a position we already had before it even happened.

                      Take Atrocitus only having one accessory. Is that a big deal? I mean do we need to break down which of the sub figures are the loss leaders versus which ones Mattel is “making a mint” on? Jay has three new pieces and the vac metal, Atrocitus has four new pieces and an accessory, Starman has two, Black Mask has a new head with three accessories, Mirror Master has at least four and the two interchangeable pistols, so and so forth…

                      It seems to me like it’s a consistent base line of what can be “put into” each figure so no one of them is really that worse off than another. That said, it already appears the furthest out are coming out a little better than the ones that were pulled from the waves back in Feb 2011 to kick off the sub. Which is a good sign to me.

                      The first sub offerings don’t feel like “less” than the retail figures from 2011. I’m paying less, since Mattel opted to lower the price to $15 for subscription sales, which is better than the $16.50-$19 at retail. And while I did lose the C&C value, I’m going to chalk that up to the less units sold and be happy.

                      The only thing we’re missing here is the occasional 100% tool, which I do lament because I want Granny, a bigger Doomsday, Lead, and even a giant Killer Croc for his fans. But I think we have to understand why that’s not happening without contempt.

                      It’s the same thing with Ghostbusters – Ghostbusters annoys me because the GB team couldn’t be more creative in dealing with the adversity the reality of sales created, but at the same time perhaps there wasn’t very much a more creative team could’ve done. I don’t know. CIE will be the same – I expect the team to be clever in dealiing with the restrictions the low sales put upon the sub. So far I think they’re doing a good job with that and if they figure out they should be doing characters like CM3 or Uncle Sam until they get their ducks in a row, I’ll continue to think the objective position is to be pleased.

                    • And I sensed some frustration and annoyance too on Noisy’s part, the feeling of a man who was being challenged in his own home and I must publicly and in all sincerity apologize for any antagonism I may have stirred.

                      My frustration is borne from the reality that Mattel seems to be doing exactly the wrong thing (in my opinion) with CIE to generate sales and grow the brand.

                      The Club should be a big moneymaker. Free of the constraints of fickle retailers, the line should blossom with all manner of ‘weirdies’ and obscure heroes and villains, unleashed from the need to ‘average out’ the expense of one figure by ‘going cheap’ on others in a prepack wave. Buck use should be based on “this is really what is needed” and not “this is all we can do”. For that matter, new bucks should be created to broaden use which over time would reduce the cost of production.

                      None of that is happening. And what IS happening, the whole “Sorry, this is all we can do boo hoo hoo 2013 sub sales have to improve” poor pockets attitude is only going to push people away.

                      Without Toyfare Magazine to pimp Mattycollector, where are potential customers even going to HEAR about CIE? How do you grow your customer base? Facebook and sites like IAT? But that is maxed out, it seems. the club is where it’s at and the intertubeweb has proved once again that ‘eyeballs’ does NOT equal $$$. All the likes and frending and thumbs up on Facybookie is meaningless.

                      See, I don’t want to hear post-SDCC that Mattel is pulling the plug on CIE as they rethink the line in the wake of the Nu52 changes (and you KNOW there’s going to be more changes. The bloom is off that rose.”We need a headline! I know! Alan Scott is gay!” Oh wait, that’s not ‘real’ just an alternate Earth. Or something. MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MIND DC!!). And now that the ‘official’ company line is it takes 2 years to make toys it’ll be 2014 before we see something. Like Mattel deciding to bow out of the agreement with DC and Hasbro stepping up and snapping up the license.

                      Oh crud, there’s a chain of thought that I hadn’t considered. All this footdragging and such, what if the DC contract is due for renewal and Mattel is positioning themselves to ditch it? Wrapping up lines. We’ve got New Batman Movie and New Superman movie to burn thru (and funny how nobody is even talking about New Superman very much lately, huh?) and I have a sad feeling both toy lines will seriously underperform. Hm, gonna have to think about this more.

                      Would Hasbro take on DC? Would they feel that they’re doing just fine with Marvel and not want the added burden? Would DC figures end up coming from Jazzwares or, hahahahaHAHAHAHAAH Bandai America? *snoft* sorry, that just HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHHAA! ๐Ÿ™‚

                    • You don’t need to apologize for anything, Steve. DC reupped the Mattel license a year back or so, so the renewal is back to being years away. And I agree with you about advertising, but I honestly can’t tell you where they should be advertising. There’s not enough money in Mattycollector to mount ad campaigns in any media.

              • TwoFisted

                Has anybody considered the idea that all the sub figures were originally designed and produced as future waves if DCUC? All of this sudden drop off of DC toys really sounds as if DC laid down the law on their product and Matty had to scramble around to acomodate the mother company. I believe all the sub figures..Atrocitus, Jay, Metron..all of them were meant for future waves of DCUC. I believe Matty got a call from Mr. DC/Warner and they said…”hey! we’re moving foreward with a plan to completely rebuild our brand and we’re sticking with it and we dont want any product out there reflecting our old brand! We only want our New52 stuff out there…GOT IT??”. And Matty shot coffee out of his nose and replied..”but we’ve got 3 waves of DCUC either completed or in development!!!” and DC said…”NOT OUR PROBLEM”

                I think all the complaints about the lack of new tooling and lack of accessories is all because these sub figures were all part of Mattys built in numbers for retail offerings. Lots of reused parts and minimal accessories. Matty just took all the figures they had completed or nearly completed for DCUC wave 21 or 22 or 23 etc, put them in fancy packaging and offered them to us thru their website as Club Infinite Earths. A way for them to recoup some of their money but not have them at retail as per DC/Warners New52 rules.

                Of course this is just my gut feeling. I have no idea how much control a master company has over their brand when it comes to licences. I could be completely wrong and since Matty paid their price of admission they can do whatever they want with the licence they bought. But you’d think DC would have a certain ammount of input as to whats being made and put out there.

                It would stand to reason that DC simply told Matty that they had to more or less cease what they were currently doing and begin work on their New52 product. I’m fairly certain what whatever we end up seeing for their 2013 offerings will be New52 centric. We’ve already seen a few of what they might look like with what was going to be their All-Stars rebranding.

                In sort of a panic….Matty took all their product in progress and made it part of their subscription to at least not have all that be a total loss. One would think that any “added value” like red barf or different hands or whatever would be adding more cost to an endeavor thats already costing them money.

                Perhaps whatever this thrown together final DCUC wave of 4 figures we might see by the end of the year is DC throwing Matty a bone and letting them at least offer a little bit of their existing product at retail to recoup some dollars(note that the New52 Superman and Batman might be part of this final group of figures)

                Just my gut feeling on this. I’m by no means defending Matty….but i dont see some conspiracy at play either. Matty is still out there to turn a profit but producing products on the cheap. Which is the American Way.

                • Thanks for jumping in Twofisted!

                  It’s widely accepted that Jay & Atrocitus were pulled from Wave 19 & 20 (it’s thought that GA Hawkman & Yellow Sinsestro took their spots) when they were planning the sub in the earlier part of the year. Metron was also sculpted in advance, but his chair wasn’t, which had led to speculation that he was either coming without his chair or was the SDCC exclusive.

                  Mattel hasn’t been what I’d call clear about it, either letting consumers think that the lack of interest was partially to blame on DC’s PR failure or perhaps not even being aware that we think that were problems with the sub rollout, but all signs indicate the subscription was planned well in advance of the DCnU announcement, actually as part of Mattel wanting to expand the Matty offerings based on the 2010 sales.

                  • Lay Ze-Man

                    If they had a bunch of ’em already done (or in development) for Wave releases, that also make much more sense why Matty went ahead with the sub despite the failed thermometer.

                    • I always felt like we were going to end up with Jay, Starman, and Atrocitus no matter what. And Toy Guru has even said that if they don’t get enough sign-ups to make the 2013 subscription go through, then they’ll just sell what they showed (like Ghostbusters) and that’ll be that.

                      One thing I do find interesting about all these developments is they give us an idea of what will happen with the inevitable demise of the MOTUC sub.

                  • Tom McCraw

                    I think it’s easy to see how some of the waves would have turned out. According to Mattel, before the drastic all themed waves like wave 17, they would do two or three related characters per waves. So following that pattern we have Atrocitus and Larfleeze, Black Mask and Ivy. So the patterns are starting to form. Wonder who’s left to announce will fit in? I agree that Metron is the SDCC exclusive for this year. Matty did a great job of scrambling and putting together a Sub to save some of their costs. I won’t beat them up too much on that, caus I’m still getting figures for my collection. Too bad they just can’t come clean with the truth. I’m almost sure the thermometer thing was to drive up memberships. Why they can’t advertise in comic books is beyond me. It would reach a good part of their market.

        • Dylan

          I love Croc as the giant monster! He’d be a great oversized figure for the sub!

  • And now the official word is “two years” yet a WWE figure gets cranked out in under a year.

    I note that they may end up walking back one of their answers i.e. “No more Voltron Club” (which I predicted, but I think we all knew it).

    So, DC Club, everything, EVERYTHING depends on getting the subscription numbers up for 2013. Given the weaksauce efforts (figures shown) to date, given the utter lack of a SDCC exclusive to showcase the line and generate excitement, not to mention all the chaos over retail, DC’s Nu52, pulling the plug on Young Justice and the surprisingly lukewarm rampup to the new Batman movie figures and concurrent ‘kid friendly Batman’ line (Has anyone heard ANY excitement? maybe I don’t read enough boards. Or maybe everybody is just mind blasted from The Avengers ๐Ÿ™‚ ), does anybody really believe that subs for the 2013 club will explode? I don’t. I actually expect a decline.

    It’s almost as if Mattel just doesn’t care anymore.

    • I disagree with you about the 2012 figures shown to date. I’m excited for everything except for Rocket Red. I love Jay, Atrocitus is coming and with some extra height that we requested, Starman has his Thom Kallor head, Metron’s Chair is exceptional, Platinum will come with Tin, Ivy looks great, Mirror Master ended up with two guns and interchangable barrels on his gun so they can store in his holsters or be posed in-use, Black Mask has a great head sculpt and some cool accessories.

      And there’s no reason to expect that won’t continue into 2013. Yes, I’m bummed about not getting Granny or Doomsday, but based on this year, I’m still looking forward to the next one.

      As for the two years, it unfortunately stands to reason. The 2013 sub goes on sale in July 12 and that means they have to have extended plans out to April-June of 2013 without knowing how it will sell. I still have hope that if sales are better, we might see some cooler stuff at the tail end of 2013 (like MOTU in 2009).

      • Noisy, I love you like a brother. I feel we’re not fighting, we just have different perspectives and experience.

        You see the glass half full, and there’s a pitcher just out of sight under the counter ready to fill that glass. Me, I think back to everything I’ve seen and read here, the words of others both good and bad, and the only conclusion I can come up with is not only is the glass half empty, but there’s a hole in it. If it doesn’t leak on the counter it’s gonna dribble all over your shirt.

        And really, this is marked contrast where I see the glass neither half empty or full, merely a glass in its state of being, fulfilling its existence which is to contain liquid. ๐Ÿ™‚

        Club DC (I expect a name change and relaunch, actually) is what it is now, and I call it striving to be mediocre at best. AT ITS BEST. And I don’t see any possible way it can be better, not with the mindset of those in power currently.

        I’m not giving them a pass because of Metron and his chair. I’m going with my speculation that all of that was done as development for the 2012 SDCC exclusive (where there was extra money and a desire to ‘showboat’) and it got yanked into CIE just because they needed something to fill a slot and it was almost done.

        I have hope for Platinum. I am sad Tin will be basically a statue. I am honestly angry we’re not gonna get Lead. The figure, one of a number, that Club Infinite Earths should be MADE for, even if there was a healthy retail DCU line.

        And don’t get me started on a Doc Magnus figure. GRRRRRR WROWF BARK BARK!! ๐Ÿ™‚

        anyway, I just can’t put a positive spin on this. Not anymore. Won’t be let down again.

        • No, we’re not fighting. We just have a lot of discussion here at IAT. ๐Ÿ™‚

          For me, I don’t see how anyone can call the “Signature” Series mediocre unless you’re willing to call the entire line mediocre (& maybe you are?).

          In that sense, I might say that you’re looking at the slightly cooler than room temperature water, sweating on the table with half-melted ice and comparing it to the ideal of a crisp glass of freshly poured water. Both will quench your thirst and you shouldn’t turn down the one just because it’s not exactly how you like it.

          I mean, the line has always been a mix of heavy new tools (Cyborg, Gentlemen Ghost, Blue Beetle, Jonah Hex) and fantastic figures with near total re-use (Captain Atom, Blue Beetle, Starman, Bronze Tiger). Yes, faltering sales made the new tools drop off the last year or so and now the Club has had to eliminate them entirely, but there are so many low-tooling characters the lines needs that we can go for awhile on those alone. 2012 has an impressive line-up if you ask me, including Metron and his chair who, origin aside, is part of the sub.

          I’m not let down at all. I’ve been buying this line for seven years in it’s various incarnations featuring compatible figures. I’ve got a huge DC roster on my shelves (& unfortunately some boxed up) and it’s still going. Jay Garrick is with my JSA, Metron will be with my New Gods, Flash will finally have another Rogue, etc.

          I’m good.

          • Well, ya know, fair enough.

            A reissue of Green Lantern can’t even bother to pack in the EXISTING POWER BATTERY.

            OK then. ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Assuming that you have the same constraints to work under that the DCUC team did, what would you have cut from that wave to get the reissue GL figure his lantern? We’re not talking the ideal situation here, but rather decisions dictated by people with incontrovertible calculators. Do you rob Sinestro of his lantern? Do you take away Reverse-Flash’s little power stick? Do you drop the accessory from a figure that’s already been released multiple times? Or, do you become the problem employee who fights for the accessory that’s already been released multiple times? If you do the latter, how many times can you go to bat for something before you find yourself not working on the line anymore?

              • But is it either/or? The problem with accessories is they have to be tooled up. Existing accessories *should*, by all rights, not be a problem.

                See Also Blue Flash with Superman part.

                And as to multiple Power Batteries clogging up a baggie or something, the point of the All-Star repops was give people who missed a figure another shot, right? Thus, that may well have been someone first Green Lantern (hard as this may be to believe, Mr. “I’ve got 99 Green Lanterns but this ain’t one of them” ๐Ÿ™‚ ). It would have been mine. Altho I would prefer a more ’70s Neal Adams GL.

                But of course that’s a point about being the nail that sticks up in a corporate environment.

                • dayraven

                  exactly, it’s not as if they haven’t repeatedly told us that the largest expense for producing the toy is new tooling… and that wasn’t new. it wasn’t painted either, it was literally the cost of pouring PVC into the mold.

                • It is absolutely eiter/or. Good or bad, they’re a business and something had to be cut – what other piece from that wave should’ve been cut? What do you choose instead of the lantern? Looking over the list, that’s the easiest thing to ditch to me. If a consumer wants a Hal with a battery, they’re available elsewhere. I just can’t level that one at Mattel.

                  Flash’s Superman part is a different discussion about the folks at Mattel not having their finger on the consumer’s pulse. They thought they were doing something cool or they wouldn’t have done it, so it’s not as likely to be cut as you or I would see it now.

                  • Wait, wait, I’m confused.

                    They can afford to re-pop Superman lightning(using a tool that hasn’t been used in how many years? One assumes that had to be dug out of storage) (and use the back buck torso with a hole in it instead of the standard buck torso parts) because they thought “it was cool”, they can give All Stars Batman his laptop (because it was essential?) but they can’t give Green Lantern his iconic Power Battery because in some way it cost too much?

                    I’m sorry, there’s a disconnect there, surely a lack of consistent thought.

                    • I see no disconnect there. They cut the power battery to get that particular wave under whatever budget they have. Other waves and releases are not relevant because the cost ratios weren’t done at the same time. It would be my assumption that had Hal been the All-Star in place of that Keaton Batman, he would’ve gotten his battery and had Keaton Batman been in the last wave, they’d have cut his lap-top. Looking across that wave, if asked to cut one accessory, I would cut the umpteenth green power battery without a second thought. It all makes sense to me and I’m just apologetic that I can’t make it clearer.

          • Lay Ze-Man

            I’m not even subscribing, and I’m the first to give Mattel hell, but even I thought the sub reveals were pretty cool overall.

            If the revealed sub figures had been what was Wave 6 of DCUC (or any Wave back when I was actively collecting and enjoying DCUC) I suspect there would’ve been far fewer complaints.

            I just think so many things Mattel has done in the interim, in all of their lines, is unfairly coloring the sub offerings themselves.

            For me personally, it’s just been more of a case of that style of figure wearing out its welcome, already having a very healthy assortment of DCUCs (despite shedding several dozen!) . . . and simply not being diehard enough of a DC fan to have that much invested in team completion, or era fleshing out, etc.

            So for me at this point, it really has to hit “stand out cool figure” zone, and the parts reuse definitely hurts it a little from a POV like mine.

            • I definitely think the figures are on par with figures that had been in waves, heck some of them came from waves!

              We’re in the fifth year of the line, and the eighth year of the body style, so I think fatigue is a big issue for the casual fans even if a lot of the teams are competed. There’s not much sexy about the CM3, Uncle Sam, Elasti-Girl lineup, but it would be kickass for folks like me.

              • Lay Ze-Man

                Wow, you’re right . . . 8 years with that buck.

                I do remember being REALLY impressed getting those first DCSH figures, but 8 years is a long time in the toy industry.

                So who knows what the solution is for casual fans. If companies like Mattel (with rocker ankles and necks on DCUCs) and Hasbro (ankles, double joints on Joes) are neutering their “super-articulated” figures the first chance they get, maybe “collector style” figures are essentially done for in mass market lines.

                • I still am happy with the buck, but I get to invest some nostalgia in it since the proportions are similar to that of the Super Powers buck from my youth. Still that’s a long time for a “style” of figures.

                  I was disappointed to open up my movie Joes and have the ankles gone entirely! My Rock figure needs a leg transplant stat. And a new right hand while we’re at it… ๐Ÿ˜›

                  It does seem that the squeeze between what we’re willing to pay and how much it costs to put in “super-articulation” is becoming untenable for the companies more and more. It sucks.

    • dayraven

      the answer there being “the WWE stuff outsells DCU by about 10 to 1… so the WWE gets pretty much whatever they want”

      and it does help that brock is essentially a new head and some thigh shorts.

      • But isn’t it fair to say, if Brock was a DC character, they’d not do the thigh shorts?

        and I guess my market is wrong because brother, I see a LOT of WWE warming pegs. I really should get that Rey Mysterio with the remote boom camera, it’s been marked down and I really want that camera for some stupid reason. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • An aisle of WWE warming pegs! DC can only warm a couple at a time.

          • dayraven

            the thing is, the WWE moves a ton of merch at booths at the live events, and their website, and the various retail outlets (they’re literally every where toys are sold)… and more importantly, they advertise their products every week, sometimes two and three times a week. every time john cena changes a shirt, BANG! new figure.

            IF brock had been a DCU fig, yes, they would have painted on the shorts, and made him of the discount recycled plastic. but he’s not, so he’ll have all the articulation, stunning paint accuracy, solid construction and new thighs. ๐Ÿ˜‰

            • And that’s the synergy of licensee and licensor at work. While it’s a different subject, I wonder how sales of DCU/CIE might expand if DC Comics put a little ‘push’ out there? Imagine ordering DC figures from DC’s website!

              I know, madness. I really should see someone about this… ๐Ÿ™‚

              • dayraven

                and what’s more, seeing any of the toys advertised during the DC nation block of programming on cartoon network would be preferable to say, schlocky claymation w/ bad british accents.

  • I completely forgot to post the answers yesterday! I just got them up on my site, ha ha.

    • Cool! I’ll get you added when I get home!

    • Brainlock

      after finally watching a couple of Scott’s promo vids on FB, I’m pretty sure any answer with “tool’d” and “plus’d up” (instead of ‘scaled up’) are him. can someone give him a dictionary at SDCC or whatever con he shows up at next?

  • Tribsaint

    From ActionFigureInsider (they have comments closed)
    Q3. What are those lessons you say youโ€™ve learned from the performance of GL, YJ, Legacy and DCUC at retail?

    A3. Mom and kid interest is essential for a line to succeed at retail. If we want to do a collector only line, you will find that on Mattycollector.com

    My question is why does this apply to DCUC but doesn’t seem to apply to Marvel Legends?

    I think its more to do with poor handling on mattels part. Habro had the seem problem with their first try at legends.

    • I think it does apply to Marvel Legends. It’s just that Marvel enjoys much more non-collector interest in their product thanks to not only being a toy shelf staple for twenty years, but also the high profile success of their films and characters.

      If DC could move units like Marvel, Mattel would be in hog heaven.

  • Tribsaint

    I have to disagree at least a little bit. While I agree Marvel has better branding, if you look at their character selection there are a ton of figures that have little to no presents beyond the comics (Univese and legends) I think Mattels sorrows are mostly their own doing. Marvel legends has had 2 waves released this year to date I bought all of them for around 15 bucks, and I’m missing 1 figure (big time spider-men) and at any store I have been in there are 2 to 4 legends warming the pegs. Now compare DCUC 20 waves I have 4 unfinished CnC I have seen 1 figure from wave 20, At the local Wal-mart there are no less than 20 Eclipso and Dr Midnites warming at 5.00 clearance price. There is no way that Drax, Thunderball, Madam Hydra better known than The GL peg warmers that have the GL corps to fall back on. Mattel priced themselves out of Mom/kid and pissed of collectors.

    One other point before I plan my African American lit class’ last week .

    Mattel is trying to placate the question of why on DCUC (or CIE) SDCC figure with claims that CIE is so good that we (or those that subscribed) are getting an SDCC figure every month. Is anyone buying this? On one hand they say their hands are tied and on the other they tell us they are going full throttle? With exception of Metron none of the figures shown looks like they couldn’t have been a regular DCUC release.

    Believe it or not I would much rather this went the other way and I had toys that I could find and buy at a reasonable price, But that isn’t how Mattel plays the game even though other smaller companies can.

    Noisy thanks for having a discussion many site wouldn’t indulge so many POV that was in opposition to the sites.

    • dayraven

      yeah, i have to say, this statement:

      ” Ideally it will be like getting a DCU 6โ€ SDCC item every month.”

      just totally doesn’t seem supported by facts… does any fig announced besides metron feel like an SDCC exclusive? on the one hand, he’s alluding that we could see jujjed up packaging cuz that’s the kind of thing we’d see at SDCC… and on the other, tooling budget is so tight we’re looking at mostly reuse for the year, per their own statements. where is the reality in all this? i do think there’s a fair bit of logic in the “these are all pre-DCIE” conspiracy, mostly because it’s not a conspiracy. it’s business. if the lead time is 2 years, then these figs were all designed, costed, and produced 2 years ago.

      of course, that idea does conflict w/ the unflocked ears on moss man… i still think that that was a factory error that got spun into a fan choice, but then that would constitute a conspiracy.

      • But see, this is where I lose my mind, DR. If you’re selling direct, if there’s no retail, why the heck do you jazz up the packaging? Why spend that money?

        I mean, OK, it’s nice to have more than a plain card that says “DC SUPERHERO” with a sticker on the bubble, but isn’t that all that’s really needed? No need to spend money on the labor for a worker to contort the figure into an ‘action’ pose meant to catch the eye of a wandering MOM+CHILD, no need for figure specific inner trays, there’s a good amount of savings right there but you KNOW that’s not how it’s going to play out.

        argh. I need to become a billionaire so I can buy Mattel and fix this crap. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • I don’t mind the packaging because there are MOC collectors and because I think we all fill a little better not getting something out of a bag for our $15. ๐Ÿ˜€

          • Lay Ze-Man

            I wonder if there could ever be a split offering in the initial sign-up for collector stuff, where if you want it in a traditional toy package, MOCers would pay a premium compared to everyone else who gets it baggied.

            Speaking personally, and using the 4H’s OSM as an example, I much prefer getting ’em baggied with the cardboard header instead of the plastic bubble w/cardback.

            I do appreciate the artwork and photography that goes into packaging . . . for a few seconds or a few minutes (if it’s really good) . . . before it goes in the trash. :p

            Full-color packaging can’t be cheap for the DC stuff, and especially spread out over time you’d think they could trade up for an ankle rocker or two, no? ๐Ÿ™‚

            • I would rather have more articulation than the packaging myself. The white mailer is more than sufficent!

            • I’d be fine with that really. In my Jay review, which I’ll post soon, I talk about the box and the art and how much I appreciate the work that when into it, but it doesn’t stop me from throwing it away. The same thing with the new Dark Knight Movie Masters – but at least that packaging is trying to appeal to me from the shelf, Jay’s packaging doesn’t have to do that at all.

              And both, like you say, end up in the same place.

      • I don’t think any of the figures feel like an SDCC exclusive, but I’ve chalked that up to the 60% signup rate and not an inaccuracy in the statement itself. Of course, I also think it’s not really all that important a statement because it’s more about Mattel having to juggle the awkward reaction to the Death staction (a reaction I don’t understand myself).

        I don’t totally buy into it anyway because I wouldn’t consider each MOTUC offering an SDCC exclusive either and those figures currently feel like a better value. But DC is at what I’d call the “Stratos” stage right now. I think Black Mask & Mirror Master show a lot of promise that the “Scareglow” stage will come quickly. If Black Mask can have the cowl and knife accessory, then Kandor or a phantom zone projector are back in play for the subscription. That would keep me (even more) hooked.

        • I’m gonna tackle the Death statue issue, because it goes to something I’ve been chewing over for some time now.

          I am coming to believe that there is somehow a collective ‘race memory’ in our subconscious, something that somehow, even those born well past the time of experiencing a thing, somehow it’s known and it colors our perceptions of value. I speak of ‘cheap, disposable entertainment’ in pop culture.

          Vault and other devotees of Japanese toys will understand the term ‘Sofubi’. It’s a Japanese ‘mashup shorthand’ word meaning Soft Vinyl. We’ve all seen them, plastic toys with limited articulation, usually where parts are assembled. Head, shoulders, hips. Urban vinyl is a huge, expensive hipster culture thing.

          OK, what is forgotten in today’s world, those beloved sofubi of monsters and heroes were CHEAP. Cheap, disposable toys. Toys meant to be destroyed in play and thrown away. Toys bought at impulse at the train station or grocery store to stop Junior from crying. Heck, one of my beloved memories is of a cheap-ass blow molded vinyl toy of the Nuclear submarine Nautilus. Mom bought it for me at a liquor store we stopped at on the way home when she needed to pick up a couple packs of cigarettes. (man, the odd things that stick with you, memory-wise. Onward). Sofubi figures pretty much went by the wayside in the U.S., only baby dolls for the most part, as the action figure evolved.

          But somehow, in some odd way, I think we all, yes, even you whippersnappers in your 20s, somehow just KNOW that a piece of blow molded or rotocast vinyl that moves just it’s arms and head is a cheap toy, NOT an action figure, not a statue.

          Death, and Dana from Ghostbusters, have ‘cheap’ buried in their DNA. Just as people pause at $9.99 for a paperback book and $19.99 for a CD and $3.99 for a comic book (paperbacks are ‘supposed’ to be $1.95, an album $3.99 and a comic book no more than a buck), something deep inside sees a hollow vinyl cheap toy and says “hey, that’s not $20 and up toy!”.

          If the Death statue had been resin or even solid PVC I don’t think a single person would have bitched. Same with Dana. Statues we understand. Hollow vinyl with P.O.A. limited by the assembly of parts? Nuh-huh. That’s going backwards. We all may not think that out loud but I believe it’s there, in our collective subconscious.

          How’s that?

    • I would go so far as to say that it’s not even the characters themselves, that the Marvel logo being placed on a figure makes it sell better than putting a DC logo on it.

  • Here’s my “day later point” that I was too tired and openly frustrated to really express properly yesterday. This “point” isn’t calling anyone out specifically and really isn’t even directed at anyone in particular in this thread. It’s just where I’m at on this subject as it’s been consuming me while I’ve travelled around the net, biting my tongue and keeping it all in.

    I think a lot of consumers (I can’t say collectors because a contingent of the negativity isn’t coming from the collectors buying the figures, which is another frustration), they need to step back and accept the reasons that Mattel gives for why they do what they do… with the understanding that it does have to be put through a public relations filter. There is nothing evil about PR spin and it’s not always expressly covering up a lie. I’ve found that the simplest explanations tend to be the most accurate and if we’re a few steps shy of a flow chart to explain “what really happened” we’re probably a few steps shy of what really happened too.

    Mattel, for better or worse, has a certain profit margin they want to hit with each individual figure. It pays for Toy Guru, Bill, Melanie in legal, Jerry in the photo lab, the cupcakes on Barbie’s birthday, and thirty seconds of the lights in the home office on Thursday, whatever. I’m not interested in what it is because it’s like the price of gas, rain on your wedding day, and the really annoying high going price of last year’s SDCC Starscream on eBay – I’ve no control over it and I try to not expend energy on things like that.

    The team that works on the figures doesn’t even have control over whatever the profit margin is, but this is one instance that I can appreciate the Mattel setup – they know what they have to spend on each figure and it’s to their benefit to maximize the figure within that budget. I think some brand managers, designers, and engineers have demonstrated that they’re better at solving the budget problems than others, but I’m happy enough with the product to keep buying, so that’s a stamp of approval on the current teams.

    I’m happy when consumers give their commentary of things they’d like to see (Ivy’s hands, Starman’s second head, Atrocitus’ longer shins, etc) in the hopes that the extra thousands of eyeballs can figure out a solution that the team maybe didn’t. At the same time, I get frustrated by the pie-in-the-sky demands, things we know they can’t currently do. This is a tricky thing and I can’t provide any good rule of thumb – for example, I think we’re all in unanimous agreement that we need the damn “rocker” ankles back and none of us particularly care about the costs Mattel incurs when they do insert-molding. But in that scenario, when it’s something we all know would be better for the line, when it’s something that we should continue to harp on in the hopes that someone working on the line can find a clever way to get it back without the constraints, we have to stay positive. We have to stick with the “man! that would’ve been awesome if they did that…” aspect.

    Instead, some folks give into disliking what we’re getting because they’re comparing it to that ideal – an impossible ideal given the current conditions. For some reason I’ve yet to understand, folks are viewing the Club figures as somehow not good enough when I’m positive they would’ve been welcomed as is in the wave structure. Too many of us create this confrontational, antagonistic relationship with toy companies. I don’t get it. I mean, I understand that the consumer-manufacturer relationship isn’t supposed to be roses – we both want more from the other for less, but it doesn’t have to turn into vitriol, grand conspiracy theories, or unbridled anger that has to be vented on every major message board (again, I’m speaking in generalities, none of that is happening here).

    And I know that my mentioning how the current crop of Club figures would’ve been great as retail figures brings up the question of where the perceived extra money is going, the question of what’s happening to the retailer’s cut. I’m fine thinking a portion of it has been eaten by rising costs and the cost per unit going up for the lower run. They do have to pay Digital River and DCL which would it eat into the “savings”, but I imagine that’s not too much per unit. Who knows, maybe Mattel does expect to pocket extra money on Mattycollector – I don’t know.

    There’s nothing wrong with wanting better things. I do it every day, but there’s been a lot of negativity surrounding those wants lately and it’s just wearing me out. I had a fellow collector e-mail me his thoughts the other day. That the line was dead and that Mattel should put it out of his misery and end the sub. I took the time to respond, because I still haven’t learned to not do that, and it went rather poorly. Then visiting around the boards you see a mix of the folks buying and enjoying or buying and lamenting, but there’s a lot of folks not-buying and harping. When I want to spread the enjoyment of toys, those roadblocks weigh more heavily on me than they should.

    Toys are supposed to be fun. Collecting is supposing to be a hobby, relaxing, uplifting, adding flare to our lives. We all could use to remember that sometimes and to remember that we are the ones that can make it fun or not โ€“ we donโ€™t have to surrender our enjoyment of hobby to the politics of toy companies, the economics of profit margins. Our attitudes are under our control, but right now Iโ€™m just seeing more attitudes out of control, to the point that the attitudes are coloring perceptions. It makes it rough. While I want to remind everyone of the internal power they have on their attitude, I think we could all use some good news and soon.

    • Lay Ze-Man

      Do I smell an impending Truetorial . . . ?

      “Just Enjoy Your Damn Toys, People!!” ๐Ÿ˜€

      • LOL It would be nice and I always appreciate that my comments section is exceptionally civil, but I imagine an admonishing truetorial would change that dynamic…

        I think the thing I’ve really been wanting to say is that I wish folks not buying would leave the folks buying alone enough to enjoy their stuff. I’ve been in threads of late where the people receiving Jay are happy, but you have to wade through people who didn’t buy the sub, or don’t even buy DC toys, bitching about Mattel and the figures. What’s up with that? I don’t know anything about My Little Pony and if I heard Hasbro was doing something exceptionally boneheaded with that line, I’d feel bad for the people buying it and that’d be that. I wouldn’t travel to a MLP board and bitch at/to the people buying it. Makes no sense.

        • Lay Ze-Man

          I generally agree with you, but the difference between your MLP example is that I think deep down, most people bitching about Mattel and the sub really want to buy and support the line.

          And just speculating, they either can’t for financial reasons, or won’t because of some “principled” objection they have.

          I’m not really in either of those categories with DCUC, therefore I don’t go ‘looking for a fight’ on the topic, but the above better describes my relationship with the MOTUC sub stuff, so I understand the motivation.

    • Snowglare

      I haven’t been keeping up with posts elsewhere of late, but isn’t the chief complaint a valid one, that with the cost of shipping lumped in, the club (subscription or not) asks us all to pay more for the same thing. This seems to me the root of the building discontent over the years. Mattel’s DC figures haven’t notably increased in quality or value (as in, bang for your buck) since DCU started, but the price has steadily increased. Now it leaps up again and we get nothing for it. Conspiracies be damned! No one needs a complicated reason to be unhappy with the state of DC figures today.

      It’s true that some people want more than Mattel can give us. Maybe what we have now and what we’ve gotten the past 5+ years is more or less the best we can get. I’d be willing to pay significantly more for a dramatic increase in quality – more poseability, accessories, interchangeable parts – but that might end poorly. A similar setup was disastrous with Young Justice; doing it properly might not make enough of a difference.

      What it boils down to is, I don’t want what they’re selling. I have a hard time finding a character I like whose figure is good enough and whose price is low enough that I’ll still want it years after buying it, let alone one where I’ll feel like I got a bargain.

      I’ve gotten good stuff from Mattel, though. I’ll always be grateful for both Blue Beetles, both Artemises, DCSH Batgirl and Catwoman… really, the 6″ stuff in general. Maybe they’ll make more gems in the future and I’ll be able to justify the price. I’m not optimistic, though. For me, it’s not the ideal they’re falling short of. It’s more like I’m hoping for table scraps and lucky to get that. There are too many hurdles to jump before I can get a figure on par with my favorites, so there’s no sense expecting one.

      To be fair, the biggest hurdle is character; the more DC stuff you like, from the ancient comics of 2010 to the movies to the ‘toons to DCnU, the more chances you have for satisfaction. I was lucky enough to happen upon the one per case MM Alfred figure the other day. Almost bought him. I’d sure like an Alfred, even if I don’t have a good Batman, and this one looked very nice. Only, I’ve no desire for a figure of Michael Caine as Alfred. I just want a comic/cartoon-inspired butler, so that one’s no use to me. *shrug*

      • Hey, Snowglare! I haven’t seen you around in awhile!

        I think there are tons of valid complaints, my lament is more about how you approach/express complaints. I would never suggest we just shut up and take it.

        Shipping is an interesting one because you either include it the value of the figure or you don’t – and that decision has entirely be pre-decided somewhere else, years ago, on the first handful of things you ordered online. It’s easy for me because I don’t consider the cost of shipping something the company producing the figure needs to worry about. I’m paying Mattel $15 for the figure and Newgistics $8 to get it to me, that’s how I see it. And, in reality, I get mad at myself when I forgot to change the shipping to the $11 UPS option when I place an order. But I’m getting a different value out of the figure – I’m so happy to have Jay and I’m excited for Atrocitus, Metron, Mirror Master, etc. To me, the subscription is still a great thing, but I understand why it’s not for everyone.

        • Snowglare

          I’ve been reading the reviews. Usually a few days late, though, after the comments have died down, so I don’t bother posting.

          Certainly, shipping cost isn’t an unreasonable addition – I agree Mattel’s not exactly accountable for that – but I count everything when deciding whether to buy something. Tax, driving around to hunt… the only thing I don’t really count is time. I’ve wasted so much time looking for deals when I could’ve just paid a few bucks more. And I’ll keep doing it, because I love being able to look at my collection and remember the pittances I paid for some of the best and rarest pieces. After the toys themselves, that feeling of anti-buyer’s-remorse is my favorite thing about collecting.

    • Long time reader, first time poster. I just wanted to say that I loved reading this comments and I agree with Lay-Ze Man about it being a good start for a truetorial! Thanks for a great read, Noisy!

    • Dylan

      Great post.

  • OK, and there was this over at Mint Condition. I’ve excised this from the larger reply but not changed it otherwise:

    “Ideally it will be like getting a DCU 6โ€ SDCC item every month. (no need to toy hunt!) Metron is a great example. How in the world would we have done that at retail? He would have had to be part of a โ€œdeluxeโ€ assortment with a Batman and Superman deluxe figure and would have been short packed with many fans unable to find him. He would have been better off at SDCC to do the full chair. BUT now that we have CIE we can just include him (and other collector only figures) without retail restrains or having to wait for SDCC. With the online club the gloves are off and you will really see some great collector product (pending the sub goes forward in 2013, which I canโ€™t imagine it wonโ€™t!). ”

    Now, it seems it’s Toyguru writing this as it had some ‘tool’d’ in it as well as the phrasing seeming a bit awkward in places.

    And this is what bothers me. Why is it assumed that Metron would be shortpacked, had he been a ‘deluxe’ figure at retail? He wouldn’t HAVE to be. Given that this would be a more expensive figure concept it likely would have been a smaller caselot (as is the trend nowadays) which there’s no reason it couldn’t be ‘one each’ of the assortment. And it’s likely, sadly, Metron would be the pegwarmer because what ‘mom&kids’ would even KNOW who he was?

    rargh!

    I guess that’s my frustration. When you see embedded assumptions like that as a mindset…The Scientologists call it a ‘stop’ and that’s a good functional term. Let me play with that a moment. Deluxe figures. Metron is likely to be a pegwarmer at retail if evenly sorted in the packout. Shortpack him in order to maximize sales. Frustrated fans who know who Metron is and can’t get him (see also Gentleman Ghost)? Direct them to Mattycollector where it’s in stock!

    Fans happy, retailers happy, mom&kids happy, everybody happy. Increased sales, fewer chargebacks for unmoving stock, blah blah blah.

    But we CAN’T do that because we’ve never done that and if we haven’t done it we can’t do it. I believe the term is ‘risk adverse’.

    (and of course I’m insane. In that chunk I quote above, I read between the lines and see that yes, Metron and Chair WERE planned to be the SDCC exclusive. It’s plus’d up! ๐Ÿ™‚ )

    • I think he would have to be shortpacked from a business standpoint. It’s not risk adverse to know that he’s not going to sell as well as Superman or Batman figures. And if you think of the cost to manufacture the entire case as one whole unit, and assuming that Bats & Supes would get something smaller, his chair is likely to be the most costly thing in the case so less chair in the case would aid it’s value, but you’d have to balance that against the cost per unit.

      I still don’t quite understand the obsession with Metron as the SDCC figure, Steve. I mean, so what if he was? Or, even if he wasn’t and the poll was needed to get the beancounters to give us the chair, he’s coming out and he’s got the chair, so we’re good aren’t we? If you’re Mattel and you have something like that and it is fan-demanded, wouldn’t you ensconce in the subscription instead of SDCC?

      • ahhh, it’s just be nothing but s**t rolling downhill on me for a couple of weeks now and depression is kicking my ass, sorry.

        I’m obsessing over Metron and his Moebius Chair because to me, to my mind, and maybe just the twisted way I think, it’s the perfect showcase of Mattel handing out s**t and saying it’s shinola.

        Yes, would be annoying for it to be the SDCC exclusive altho there would be a chance it would also be on-sale at Mattycollector. Bastards would probably give away a tiny polybag of Mother Boxes with it at the booth just to tick us off.

        But to yank it from that and say “Look at this WONDERFUL THING we’re making for CIE! See? SEE? It’s gonna be FANTASTIC give us money!!” when everything they’re doing, everything they showcase, all the discussion about the poor pockets, it’s NOT AN HONEST REPRESENTATION of the club going forward!

        I’ll make a prediction right here and now. Log it, track it, save it. We will not see any more ‘effects’ (or should I say PLUS’D UP!! ? ๐Ÿ™‚ ) in future CIE offerings. No lights, no sound, nothing. Never again. If I’m wrong then…well, I don’t know what punishment or whatever would be desired. I would eat my words, naturally, and apologize at the very least.

        And I know you understand, Noisy, but for others: I don’t WANT CIE to fail. I don’t want 6″ DC figures to vanish. I want a line that explodes with creativity and energy and fun. In my twisted mind Mattel pulls out all stops and just goes INSANE with releases. Unchained from fickle retailers they build waves based on complete teams or themes. New Gods! Forever People! Mister Miracle! Artist-specific interpretations of major characters like Miller and Adams and Simonson and Aparo. Dare I suggest Alfred and Gordon and Bruce Wayne and Hal Jordan and *gasp* Lex Luthor in a SUIT?

        Madness.

        I guess in the end I’m upset because there’s a feeling of having to ‘settle’ for what’s coming up, instead of boldly going boldly.

        OK, another stupid prediction. Alan Scott Green Lantern by the end of the year. Call it a hunch. Yes, I know, he’s already been released.

        • I’m right there with yeah, buddy. ๐Ÿ™‚

          Metron’s chair has no lights or sounds, so you don’t have to eat your words. It’s just a hunk of plastic packaged with the figure. I think, whether Mattel realizes it or not, a lot of their future success wil be determined by the last two oversized figures. Metron is cool, but you’re right in that they’re not all going to get that kind of treatment with the 60% sub signup. Rocket Red is already the first abysmal offering. The success of the club, I think, relies most heavily on the oversized figures because that’s what we’ve lost at retail. I think the new DC retail line could still have Mirror Master or Jay Garrick in it, but it won’t have the big guys and that’s where the sub can shine.

          I do think there is a sense of “settle”, but I write that off as the situation. We’re in the lean years and if we’re lucky we’ll see the “Return of DCUC” just like what Hasbro was doing with ML earlier this year. And I do have a lot of hope – Black Mask & Mirror Master come with a lot more stuff than they would have had in the retail line, I think it can get better. Mirror Master is actually a great example. When he debuted at Toy Fair he had one open hand and one fist, one gun that had lenses down and fit in the holster, and one open up.

          I was still focusing on Atrocitus (a success) and Ivy (not a success, but understandbly so), so I didn’t make a push for Mirror Master to be changed, but other collectors did – and now Mirror Master is coming with two open hands so he can use both guns and the guns now have modular barrels. Both can be opened for use or swapped out for closed versions so they can be holstered. -> http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/main/afi-7th-scoop-week-mattel-dcsc-mirror-master That’s awesome. That gives me hope for even better figures going forward.

  • Cayo Hern

    I just discovered this site this morning and had fun reading the discussion. I joined the DC subscription club last summer because I was tired of having to run around to 5 stores and find all the more interesting figures already gone….and then having to pay double on eBay. I thought this would be a great way to get figures without all the variations of the major characters. I hesitated because there was very little description as to exactly which characters would be included….but nothing ventured, nothing gained! Now that the figures have started arriving, I wish that the subscribers would have some say as to which characters are part of the subscription….maybe a once-a-year poll. I see that some of the discussions here indicate that we did have some input about the details of the figures. HOW was that done? I’ll subscribing again for year 2 with hopes that these ideas will become standard practice. Since Mattel has indicated that they don’t want to do more Legion 12-packs, I hope that we’ll see more of the Legion in the club…I would love 2-a-year of the characters who have NEVER been offered before. I would also love have the figures delivered in 2 or 3 month groupings to help save on postage. Any of you who would like to reply to my questions and suggestions can reach me at my Facebook page Cayo Hern. Thanks!

    • Thanks for posting!

      Yeah, one of the biggest drawbacks about the sub is not knowing the characters in advance, but that’s very par for the course in an “of the month” club, so I’ve never really let it bother me – luckily, I love DC & MOTU enough that it’d be almost impossible for them to send me a figure I just absolutely don’t want.

      We’ve had some influence just by being loud, really. Posting here, at AFi, at CriticalMess, and on the Matty forums – anywhere the DC team might see it and take notice. It’s only successful some times, but they’re usually for the better. I’ve got a MOTUC Battle Armor Faker sitting on my desk because of it!

      • TwoFisted

        I’m still wondering if this sub was thrown together with figures already completed or far into the development stage for DCUC. That would explain the lack of pizzaz with this first year of the sub. Perhaps its a pipe dream, but maybe next years sub (if there is one) will be better because they can really develop figures strictly for the sub and not throw some figures together and make it look like it was exclusive.

        Being such a fan of toys…I’m not hip to how things are made or developed. I have no idea how long it takes to make an action figure. One would think tho that if these figures are almost entirely made out of reused parts, it wouldnt take too long. How hard is it to take the molds for GL constructs and make some red ones for Artocitus? Does anybody have any solid info on that?

        • I can’t provide solid info, but I can give some starting points for further questions! ๐Ÿ™‚

          1. It was often said that it took a year from conception to finished toy. Now we’re hearing more and more it’s a 2 year process. It’s possible that a 2-year timeframe is one year of just paper shuffling then a year of physical development.

          2. The approval process takes variable time. A design is laid out, the sculptors go at it, then someone says “no, change this, no fix that, no, make it more like this”, the work is done and eventually the master (physical model? digital files? who knows) is shipped off to China where they turn that model into a mold (called a tool. Tooling is making the mold.). There is another round of approval process where the factory works out what colors to paint it and tweaks to the figure are done if needed.

          (mind, there may be an entirely different way to do this, I’ve seen it in another hobby. Drawings can be sent to China and all the prototyping can be done there, from sculpt onward. I don’t *THINK* Mattel does that, not with figures at least.)

          Bottlenecks in the process are approval (for example, if you require an actor to ‘sign off’ on a likeness they can dick around with that for a LONG time. Happened to the Ghostbusters line with Venkman.) and just getting a slot in the schedule to physically MAKE the toy, shoot the plastic, spray the paint and put it all together. The factories are BUSY and if they’re not making figures one day they may be cranking out dishwashers the next. As far as I know there are no factories actually 100% owned and dedicated to making Mattel toys in China. Not that anybody seems to actually pay attention to that fact given how some seem to have HUGE issues with Quality Control, but that’s a separate issue.

          The fact of the ‘buck’ system doesn’t help much in the process other than in cases where the only thing needed to be done is a paint app or an additional piece. There’s a risk in altering a buck part in the mold, you can’t ‘go back’ to what it was if you ground out new detail. OTOH they may be using ‘disposable’ tools made of aluminum-filled resin (the normal tool is very very hard and expensive steel) cut from a CAD file of ‘digital’ parts. If that’s the case anything is possible. A resin tool is only good for a few thousand shots which may well be acceptable for limited run toys. Again, we don’t know. Nobody talks these things.

          I’d love a tour of one of the factories making Mattel’s figures. I’d love to see Toyguru do a photo essay of the process. Not gonna happen, that’s SUPER ULTRA TOP SEEEEKRET knowledge and explaining such things would seemingly put Mattel out of business.

  • dayraven

    i don’t know how much more i can say on the topic that won’t be construed as fighting. cuz there’s a breakdown there that will simply not allow me and noisy to exist indefinitely as peaceful co-existers… why? because he tends to view the world as a glass half full, and i refuse to not have my cup refilled. nothing wrong w/ either viewpoint, but we don’t emulsify w/out mustard. (man, that’s one one weird metaphor… whatev)

    i will say this… since DCSH, what i have seen is a consistent rise in price. no surprise there, prices have gone up. things cost more, nothing we can do about that. what i haven’t seen is any real step forward in what you’re getting in that box for the money you’re paying. we just haven’t. feel free to compare batman across the waves, since i believe he’s the character done the most from DCSH to DCU… yellow sinestro bats is not an improvement over the first DCSH bats, he’s just not. there’s lost articulation, fewer accessories, and exactly the same articulation and paint aps. now the question is, and the subject of all this debate has been, would moving the subs to matty collector get us anything new? and the answer has been decidedly NO. they’re the same figs they used to be, only w/ an 8 dollar or more price hike.

    cuz i DO factor the cost of shipping into the cost of the figure, as i can’t recieve the figure w/out that hit to my bank acct. that’s not a choice of perspective or the reflection of a reclining god, no, that is pure uncut columbian north slope fact. if i want metro, i pay 27 bucks minimum (providing i chose the cheapest shipping alternative, and provided he and his plus-d up chair ship for the same as a scrawny old man in a flying hat). that shipping is a cost of motucs too, i don’t only recognize the cost for lines i am not buying, and it’s why i kind of laugh a little to see people worried about 30 dollar motucs. they’re already 30 dollar motucs, i’m worred about 40 dollar motucs. but where i’m going w/ this, that’s not cheaper for me than driving around to a bunch of stores. not cheaper for most of you either… that 8 bucks is 2.5 gallons of gas, on an average, and we drive a big fat gas guzzling SUV that gets around 15 miles a gallon… i have never driven 40 miles just to get toys. i know some of you have, but i believe (and it’s the first point in this that is perspective based) that most folks go to the toy aisles when they’re already in a store for other things. so i share that cost experience. i don’t go to walmart just for figures, if i find figures when i’m there, cool, if i don’t, i didn’t need that figure. i think some folks (again, my perspective) who do day long toy runs and drive well in excess of 100 miles are friggin sick in the head. i’d make that drive for a life saving organ donation, or to see a live sporting event… no friggin way would i do that toys. why not? because i have other things in my life that demand more time and focus (and money) than toys. but when you make that kind of lifestyle choice for a toy, i say, and again, this is my perspective only, that that toy better be PERFECT. if you’re spending in excess of 20 bucks on a tank of gas, and even 10 for the toy itself, that ten dollar toy better be some amazing business. like walks, talks, gives you a handjob on the way home amazing. why? because the life investment you’ve put into the commodity is out of touch with it’s end value. it’s not a tool, it’s not shelter or clothing, and it’s not a food stuff, so it is in no way essential. and it’s not happiness, or a fond memory… it can help stimulate a temporary sense of joy, and perhaps assist in evoking a happy memory, but the memory is yours, the joy is yours, and any any sense of happiness is not derived from stuff. especially when one considers the current socioeconomic costs involved in creating that stuff. it’s a toy, and at the point at which it costs more than life saving water or food, and more than the time it takes to build a fire to cook food, or more than the investment we’d spent on underwear or socks, it had better be the best damned toy that it possibly can be… and i don’t mean some pie in the sky idea of what the toy could possibly be, i mean it should continue in the best offering it has yet had… and they’re NOT!! the line always offered bucks bodies, but you know what else it used to have? rocker ankles. it always had extensive parts re-use, but you know what else it used to feature? the ability to look UP! the toys you’re currently being offered to buy aren’t even the best DCUC toys that have been offered, but they cost more… how does that happen and we’re supposed to stay mondo jovial over that? if i was paying 6.48 a gallon for gas, and found out it was watered down, in what delusional world do i say “oh, well, just the cost of getting gas.” especially when the same station was just selling me 3.25 a gallon gas that was all gas just last year. i don’t believe for a second that i ought to be expected to believe that because the 6.48 gas was labeled “for collectors only” that that excuses or explains the fact that i’m getting cornholed. and i’m right to complain about the cornholing, unless the station were specifically and only called “little jimmy’s haus of gas and cornholing!”

    so noisy and i do live in two very different worlds… and somewhere between the two, reality lies. i’m not going to call the dude out, nor anyone else specifically, who likes the toys, but i will defend anyone’s right to bitch about them, be they a buyer or not, because the truth is, the cold hard immutable truth… there ARE things to be critical of and we ARE allowed to be critical w/ our own money. there’s a world of difference between a constructive beef, and an unrealistic idea, and i certainly get why being hit w/ tons of unrealism that completely disconnects from reality can be emotionally draining… i do get that. believe me, i get that… (see what i’m hinting at here?) if, at the end of the day, you’re reading so much negativity that it impacts your ability to have a regular conversation… stop reading from those sources. it’s as easy as not clicking over to that chat board/blog/news piece, whatev. any time i don’t feel like swimming w/ jellyfish, i go to the pool.

    • ” what i have seen is a consistent rise in price. no surprise there, prices have gone up. things cost more, nothing we can do about that.what i havenโ€™t seen is any real step forward in what youโ€™re getting in that box for the money youโ€™re paying. we just havenโ€™t.”

      When any toy company has to pay more for production they pass that cost along to the fans pretty much wholesale, right? So, for them to improve the figures they would have to increase the price even more to cover the risings costs and the improvements. They’re supposedly raising the price of motu figures past the increase next year so they can add value to the figures like you’re asking for. I don’t think any of us feel all that great about it though.

      • I forgot to add my milk analogy. Milk when I was born cost like $2.50 and now it’s $4. We don’t expect the milk to taste better when we buy it though.

        • I’m on your page, but I imagine what Dayraven is going to say about the milk analogy is that milk hasn’t gotten worse or of less quality during it’s 60% increase in price.

          That is one area where I get frustrated with Mattel. Some years they’ll just say, “hey we have to raise the price to whatever” and other times they’ll take it out of the figure’s hides. The rocker ankles are one of those removed features. I don’t know if the retailers would’ve gone for it, but I would’ve much rather seen Mattel up the MSRP to keep the rocker ankles back in 2010 instead of Mattel choosing that as something to cut to keep costs down.

          • Another good example of this is Stinkor, but I suppose I have to accept that he’s locked in to the $20 price.

            Anyway, Stinkor’s gear is just blue. No paint, no metallic highlights, or anything to make them pop. They look like 90s accessories. The shield doesn’t bother me so much, but the tanks are so plain. Kills me.

          • Snowglare

            I’d miss the rocker ankles a whole lot more if they worked. They’re very useful PoA in other lines, so I’d love to see Mattel fix the things and roll them back out. If we’re talking about the versions they used, though, whatever.

      • dayraven

        i will say this to that idea sir… NECA. just this year, we saw a jump in their price tag from 15 to 20 bucks a pop (and last year, we went from 10 to 15… but that got us more articulation and WAY better paints) for their player select and movie toys. and that price increase has already given us the most articulated and accessorized freddy kruger they’ve ever done, it’s giving us the most articulated jason voorhies figure we’ve ever been offered, it bought us like 4 new bucks in the gears of war line w/ radically redesigned articulation, and pop apart giant swollen zombie dude… and that’s NECA. by comparison, they’re tesla motors. mattel is ford.

        so yeah, we got a price hike, but they followed through on that and are giving us better product. certainly, that price hike was due to costs, and they factored in on those costs some value-added elements. that’s how you do business. hasbro raised the price on legends, but we’re seeing new sculpting, new accessories, new articulation, all of that has to be factored in to those new costs.

        as for the milk analogy… noisy got me half right, milk hasn’t backslid. but the other thing i would add is, the milk market has changed too. you’re paying an average of 4 bucks a gallon, but on the shelf, in that rough price range, you can find free range hormone free antibiotic free, whole milk, 2%, 1%, skim, almond, soy, chocolate soy, chocolate almond, chocolate 1%, chocolate skim, chocolate 2%, chocolate whole, strawberry whole, strawberry 1%, chocolate free range grassfed, buttermilk, half and half, non dairy creamer, lactose free, and in some areas goat. that market has blown the fudge UP my man. i also recall that when i was a kid, milk was about 1.25… and there was one fridge case of milk. one case. i also remember when grocery stores didn’t have olive bars or offer 25 varieties of cheese. so yes, i’m paying more, but selection and choice have dramatically increased in size and scale. i also remember when every store didn’t have to have electric hoverounds at the door for the fat people (cuz let’s get real… if you NEED a wheelchair, you roll into the store in one.) i recall when kmart didn ‘t have a dedicated grocery section, and i remember a pre-wal-mart world. i’m kinda old. i remember when comics were less than a $1 an ish, and available in the grocery store. i remember not being able to buy marvel universe series 1 cards because a guy in town named tony stark (no joke) was buying them by the case and my local gas station only got one case at a time. when’s the last time you bought a pack of comic cards at a gas station? so now you pay 3.75 a gallon instead of a .85 cents, but at .85 cents, i couldn’t get a banana at said gas station. now i can. the world changes, but not always for the worse. big macs used to be bigger and cheaper, but there weren’t apple dippers or wi-fi.

        mattel right now wants us to pay more to buy less. that’s not good math. noisy’s example on the stinkor is equally valid, they cheaped those accessories something awful, and really, they’re the only new parts on him. (well, the armor, but we immediately extrapolate those costs across mekanek) we’re losing, but we’re paying the same. i can almost understand an accessory not costing out… that spray ap for those tanks is what, at BEST 1/16 of a tsp of paint in an airbrush? my farts have more pigment. that can’t possibly be hard to cost out. i was still an art student the last time i used an airbrush, but i do recall quite clearly how extremely little paint covers an enormous amount of surface using that method of delivery. paint isn’t cheap, but they’re not monks illuminating a text by hand here, there are machines and methods that make these processes cheap, that’s what mechanization is.

    • Justin already swiped my first point – about Mattel getting ahead of the price increase and charging more to get that value worked in and how poorly that would go over. But I’d also point out that they did that for Young Justice. They jumped up to $20 and murdered that line dead despite having the base and a half-dozen accessories with each figure.

      You’re far from the negativity I’m talking about, while you and I have a different opinion of the value of a dollar and disagree over the notion of if Mattel should cut into their profit margin or not, you keep the decorum here and I appreciate that.

      And, I’m pretty sure that it’s called on the โ€œlittle mattyโ€™s haus of gas and cornholing” on the business license, so keep that in mind. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • Tribsaint

        I will concede the young justice is a good point. Mattel went all out and still got pegwarmers. Personally I never could pull the trigger for three reasons I guess. First the 20 dollar price tag. Second, besides robin I have no attachment to the characters or show(I already have a robin). Third, the style was a little bit of a turn off. all that said I have almost bought them a bunch of times. But It’s a great example of a Mattel all in and still losing the pot. But (and there is always but ) Mattel has garnered so much ill will at this point that it has to play a part in their failures.

        ME, I’m not hard to please I never get mad about reuse , I like just about every figure I buy. I’m not picky that way. Price is a huge concern (S&H is part of the cost of the figure), and being able to fide the toys MAttle has a f- on both counts.

      • dayraven

        thank you. i know i sometimes come off as negative, but i’m not negative to be negative. i’m negative cuz i look around and some people do it better… and the theory of the huge corporation is, that buying power, that collective creation power, means they can do things the little guys can’t… but that is consistently, in the toy business, not the case. innovation always favor the small and adaptable, that’s why there are fewer species of elephant than ever before, but the most varieties of fruit fly. i genuinely want you guys to get the best DC figs you can have, and even by the standards of the line set thusfar, you’re currently getting shafted. that’s not cool. the first thing they should have done in announcing the online version of the line is co-announce the return of rocker ankles. so far, we haven’t seen any of the perks that the retail version once had being offered during this “you buy SDCC quality figs every month!” spendapalooza. let’s at least get back to ground zero before we start the shameless self promotion.

    • Dylan

      I think most of the complaints leveled at mattel are constructive beefs AND unrealistic ideas, but that most people don’t accept the forumer can also be the latter.

  • da man

    Wow I go away for a few days and the comments have piled up! Kudos to Noisy for keeping his cool and having this forum for such great coversations! Dayraven and SteveH keep you on your toes!

    I certainly cannot add much to the conversation but I think on the YJ side of things (as well as DCIE) I think Mattel made a few big errors. On YJ, they only had 2 figures per wave(4 would have been better), and no real connection between the bases. Why make an Artemis and Robin wave but no connection other than being teammates? Why have a rooftop base that he stand on, but nothing else fun about it (how about a working grappling hook)? With the new price point of YJ, they really needed a push to justify mom and dad’s picking these up. I think Mattel assumed the bases and accessories were enough, but I think some more creative thinking could have helped this line a lot. ( I also blame Cartoon Network for being a terrible network with great programming that you can never find.) Look at the YJ 3 3/4 inch line and how folks are trying to find the last few figures to complete the Hall of Justice. For a company that did Click and Connect to abandon this is the larger line seems short-sighted. Did no one think a Young Justice Mt Justice C and C base would help sell the toys?) I also think they could have made the head sculpts look a little closer to DCUC in style(or a second head if it cost out).

    I hope we have some good things in store for the future…

    On the DCIE line, they really just needed better articulation and accessories, hands down. Marvel U sells well because they have great articulation (and the Marvel brand is getting more and more well know to casual buyers due to the movies) despite so-so sculpts on many of the characters IMHO. Mattel went the cheap route on this and got hurt. There is no reason DCIE couldn’t be doing well like MU. (I understand Marvel characters are always going to outsell DC) For some reason, they stayed with this failed model for the GL movie toys(which tanked mainly because the movie did, but i might have picked up more if they have more than 6 POAs). To not have a 3 3/4 inch DC line in stores right now with the HUGE universe of DC characters out there is almost criminal…almost.

  • Lay Ze-Man

    Also, not to rain on the comments parade here (it’s awesome to read everyone’s thoughts) but there are Forums on here that IMO would be easier to follow.

    Just sayin’ ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ˜‰