DC Universe: Club Infinite Earths

[Freefire]

Marvel is doing it right in that they setup Marvel Studios who are actively looking to make movies based on their characters. Meanwhile DC has to rely on Warner Bros who are completely content to make money off Batman, and consider Superman to be something they had to "watch and see." If you still needed any evidence that the old school studio system is dead, there you go. Marvel MADE Iron Man into a money maker.

Dayraven - I think you're right to be cautious about IM. I mean people love IM but do they really love him or do they love him played by RDJ? We'll see if theres any staying power once a new actor steps into the role. Fortunately for Marvel they usually are pretty smart with casting. I mean look at Bruce Banner.

WB just drives me crazy. Before IM1 Joe Q on the street didnt know squat about him. But they know the Flash, they know Aquaman and for mangostein's sake, they know Wonder Woman! That WB can't do anything with them is an incompetance level that is almost criminal.

Which comes back to us not being able to have a fully fleshed out and supported DC figure line. Cause they certainly arent going to get more brand recognition based on the comics!

[Freefire]

See?! Not only do they announce the new Superman/Batman movie by quoting a story where one of them is characterized as basically a moronic government tool, which is a great tone to start with. But now they pick possible the MOST divisive actor they could find to play Batman. Its like they get off by shooting themselves in the foot! I mean, I like Ben Affleck but its like they asked themselves, "Who would the fans absolutely HATE the most? Lets get that guy!"

[timh_iat]

One comment on IM--

I read Marvel regularly, and for all intents and purposes, Iron Man has been a Marvel "A-Lister" since at least 2004 (presumably in lockstep with the movie). Even before that he was hardly a minor character in the Marvel Universe. David Michelinie's "Armor Wars" from the early 1980s is a story-line that people still mention. As a kid, I knew who Iron Man was before being introduced to him in the comic universe. Iron Man has risen and fallen in popularity over the decades, but he's always been a staple character of the Marvel brand.

I'd think of Black Widow or Hawkeye as the "B-List" characters who have been propelled into public awareness by the movies. Hawkeye starred in the West Coast Avengers in the 80s, but has never been able to maintain a regular ongoing series with any permanence. Iron Man, on the other hand, has been in continuous publications since his debut in the early 60s.

If Iron Man is a marvel B-Lister, then so is Thor and Captain America--basically anyone except for Hulk and Spiderman.

[twofisted]

I think you have to throw out any recognition coming from the comics community. For every comic reader that thinks Iron Man is an A lister, you'll have somebody why thinks Morbius the Living Vampire is A list. Who's A list and who's not is an arguement thats as old as "who would win in a fight..."

Just look at the circulation of comics these days and it becomes plain to see that these comic movies arent made for comic fans...or at least we're an afterthought in the grand scheme of things. Comic readership is dwindling. If every person who read Iron Man comics...every single one went to see an Iron Man movie, it would be considered to flop. So these movies have to be made and marketed towards the non comic reading public.

But thats off topic...sorry

What I'm trying to get at is its all about non comic reader recognition. Marvel has quite a bit of brand recognition for a whole bunch of their characters and DC is still riding the Superman and Batman train. Most peoples knowlege of DC characters other than SUperman and Batman go all the way back to The Superfriends. Peoples preceptions of Wonder Woman go back to the Linda Carter show.

Marvels recognition is just newer whereas DC is still relying on whats been previously done

[Freefire]

I agree twofisted. Comic recognition and public recognition are two seperate things. And considering comics sell about 20,000 copies of any given issue if they're lucky, public recognition is the majority.

[JamesLynch]

See?! Not only do they announce the new Superman/Batman movie by quoting a story where one of them is characterized as basically a moronic government tool, which is a great tone to start with. But now they pick possible the MOST divisive actor they could find to play Batman. Its like they get off by shooting themselves in the foot! I mean, I like Ben Affleck but its like they asked themselves, "Who would the fans absolutely HATE the most? Lets get that guy!"

It's just such a bizarre choice. I honestly don't like Affleck as an actor. He always plays himself, and his personal mannerisms get very annoying, very quickly. One of the reasons I think the Daredevil theatrical cut is a stronger film than the Director's Cut is that the theatrical version edited around a lot of the "Ben Affleck playing Ben Affleck" moments, which the DC reinserted.

Plus, Affleck said he was done with superhero films after Daredevil. He said that film "inoculated" him against those films forever, and he'd never have to again experience the "humiliation" of playing a guy in a leather suit and cowl who beats up criminals in his spare time. Which is weird, because he lobbied hard for that role. and now, ten years later, he's at it again.

[Snowglare]

Good to see DC's still keeping pace with Marvel. Consistently ten years behind.

Didn't DC have some of this penetration during the heyday of the JLU cartoon? Wasn't Jon Stewart becoming a "name" until DC discarded all that capital to revive Hal Jordan?

It's as if DC gets annoyed when the "wrong" characters become popular, then DC strangles the character, and appoints an old classic that only die hard groupies like Geoff Johns remember.

Geoff Johns is DC at this point. Both companies have a gaggle of idiots at the top, but Marvel's idiots are more forward-thinking, so they manage some decent output. They surround themselves with other forward-thinking fellows and indulge in that newfangled craze where creators are allowed some measure of freedom in storytelling. You don't need to have seen any of the Marvel movies to recognize how much better their choices are on average.

DC's run by a writer stuck in the silver age, an artist trapped in the 90's and Dan DiDio. They surround themselves with the likes of Tom DeFalco, Rob Liefeld and Howard Mackie. It's hilarious. DC lags behind Marvel in almost every area possible.

Videogames - Marvel got 3-4 fun brawlers with the XML/MUA series. DC finally started catching up with Arkham Asylum, but that's just Batman. Why is one Lego game the only way I can have fun with the rest of the DCU? and now Marvel's matching that. Then there are little things like Marvel costumes in Littlebigplanet. Why isn't DC sneaking its stuff into unrelated areas like that? Why is there no Justice League Alliance on Facebook? Get aboard the microtransaction train, guys!

Toys - Domestic and foreign. DC's slowly making headway in Japan, but Batman's main competition is War Machine. He's not in the same league as Iron Man, and as usual, the rest of the DCU goes largely ignored. I want to see DC toys popping up all over. The '66 Batman stuff is. We need more of that, several companies with different takes on the same material.

Animation - Traditionally DC's forte. Lately, they can't keep anything decent afloat, but Marvel sabotages its own stuff, too. Definitely a win for DC, but I wish they could be more consistent, stop forcing crap like Flashpoint and just rochambeau Cartoon Network already. The whole AOL/Time Warner family's a mess.

Green Lantern is John Stewart. No reason you can't write good stories with other GLs, but I'll always think of him as the true GL. I grew up with Hal and a bit of Guy. So what? Nostalgia's a weak force when you get down to it. We fall deeply, madly in love with good stories, then we fool ourselves into thinking we need to be monogamous, that the same character will always thrill us no matter what. It's the writer, it's the artist, it's the story, it's everything. Green Lantern is one piece, and you're not building a puzzle. More like a Lego set. You can get another piece.

[Freefire]

Plus, Affleck said he was done with superhero films after Daredevil. He said that film "inoculated" him against those films forever, and he'd never have to again experience the "humiliation" of playing a guy in a leather suit and cowl who beats up criminals in his spare time. Which is weird, because he lobbied hard for that role. and now, ten years later, he's at it again.

Cmon now, theres no innoculation against Batman!

[dayraven]

see, where i define the A list, B list criteria is non-comic merch with a character's visage... how much is there, where is it available, what's the spread... you can find superman, batman, spidey, cap, hulk, wolvie on just about every conceivable product you can imagine, cell phone cases to kid's best sheets, shoes to band aids... IM is well distributed, but simply put, he doesn't saturate the market the way the big 4 do... although that's not the case any, it was, for many decades... we'll see, in the next decade or so, if he maintains his market presence.

as far as DC goes, the B listers there include GA, GL, WW, flash and aquaman, all of whom have had market presence, but lack staying power completely. christ, ask people what they know about wonder woman and they bring up linda carter... that show ended in 1979. there is a literal world of people who never even knew that show was on the air who can vote and drink!

affleck... ugh. that's the nicest thing i can say... ugh.

[twofisted]

Thats the point i was trying to make. Apart from Superman and Batman...the rest of the DCU is hopelessly lost in the past. Just like Raven and myself stated....you bring up WOnder Woman and the only thing that comes to peoples minds is the Linda Carter show. You mention Aquaman and people associate him with "that guy from Superfriends". Both DC properties from the 70's!! Take all those images you see on the coffee mugs and trapper keepers and DC is STILL using that same old imagery from the 70's and 80's. Sheeit, I just bought a T-shirt of SUperman and Lex Luthor that was a recycled SuperPowers image. DC/Warner is still plastering that old Garcia Lopez artwork that DC has been using since the late 70's. They claim that New52 is here to stay...yet they've done nothing to reintroduce us to their characters. So far all I've seen are a handfull of action figures. Forget about everybodies hatred of New52.....if this is their new permenent direction, you'd think they would have planned a full multi media assault. DC has yet to do so.

Lets just say a kid picks up his first comic book...and its Superman. He begs his mom to buy him some jammies or a t-shirt for school and what does he find?? A retro looking image of old SuperPowers package artwork. DC/Warner is still just incredibly slow and cautious to catch up with the times and catch up with whats going on with their own property.

I dunno if its still that same old cliched story of old farts up at the head of the company that only know how to count money or what. It just seems like the guys running the DC branch of Mattel have no clue how to market superhero toys. Its as if the last toy they played with was the one where you keep the hoop rolling down the street with a stick.