In thinking about the MOTUverse...

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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby NoisyDvL5 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:56 am

Tochiro wrote:See? All this would have gotten my post deleted. :)


No, attacking another poster and continually insulting them in subsequent posts would get your post deleted. Made up facts, sacrosanct opinions, being disrespectful of public figures, and even dismissing me like I'm just being temperamental have drawn my ire at times, but being disrespectful and rude to other readers is a sure fire community breaker.
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby dayraven » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:39 pm

PrfktTear wrote:I think after five years and what, 150+ figures our "expectations" should be in check by now, but I'm in the club where Rio just does not meet my expectation. There are some really nice elements of the figure but I don't believe the design/style is the same that would have come from this line if it had been released within the first 2-3 years.


see, here's the thing prfkt, that's totally fine. you have a style you like, i have a style i like, they don't have to agree.

what happened out there, and subsequently in here as a vent-locale, is that that gent went FAR further than "i don't like this" and when i called him on his crap, noisy leapt to his defense.

that was unnecessary.

attempting to imply that he knew what i was saying, when his attempts to repeat my point were putting words in my mouth and not reading what i actually wrote, that was an escalation from where i sit. and thus, i responded in kind.

was i perhaps a bit more rigorous in my zeal than was needed? maybe... but i would argue that the initial sentiment was pretty harshly worded as well, as was that retort, and i was cool with that. noisy's intervention was, to me, unnecessary, and felt like a gangpile. i don't retreat from gangpile, i double down, and noisy knows that. we've known each other a long time at this point, so for him to act as if he could not predict my reaction is pretty laughable.

and of course, his intervention didn't cool any heads, or introduce some new salient information that changed anyone's perspective, nor inspired a heartfelt coming together of kindred spirits. if he'd like a more thorough conversation on the topic, i kind of started chatting in here hoping he'd more things to the boards... it appears he did that. that's great, this is a much better place for a longer discussion on the entitlement of vintage fans and why they need to shut up for the continued wealth and health of the property. in here, i'd love to discuss the merits of whether or not treadaway set "a bar" for the classics line, or whether or not that bar was sufficient to re-energize the fanbase and bring in mewbies. the comments section is really not up to that kind of interaction.

BUT that said, i fired him a congrats note this morning, as the wife's water broke and they're in the hospital at the moment so baby is IMMINENT!! i'm incredibly happy for them both and hopefully, he'll have far better things to do than sit around here chatting about some stupid toys for a few months. maybe we're get some bleary eyed late night posts when he's up and can't sleep, those are always fun.
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby dayraven » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:11 pm

Tochiro wrote:I'm very bothered by what happened in the Rio Blast review discussion.

I cut Noisy a lot of slack, what with new baby on the way and all, and it IS his house in the end, so if he feels the discussion has become uncivil or otherwise disruptive, I can't really fault him for 'kicking everyone out' yet it does still bother me.

And I'm a sidelines kibitzer, having no actual skin in the game, right?

Still, I think what derailed the whole thing was calling out actual people for what is felt to be sub-par work. As long as a generic 'blame Mattel' vibe was going on it seemed OK but when specific names got thrown about, it seems to have become too personal.

I had a comment in the Space Skeletor thread vanish because it seems to have been too mean spirited towards whatever it is that passes for Mattel's QC over in China. In the Rio thread I would have called attention to WTF was going on that got that stupid 'flap' that doesn't even close. Seriously. THAT WAS APPROVED FOR MANUFACTURING. It didn't 'just happen' like reversed shoulders.

I think something major, something big happened in 2012 that just f**ked up all kinds of stuff. (Green Lantern cough cough) and new people (cheaper, clueless) got put into various positions.

I'd talk about Rio Blast in specific and I need help from the collectors on this, either support what I'm talking about or spell out my mistaken assumptions, OK?

The vintage Rio was released near the end of the line. By this point Mattel had plenty of tooling of the 'buck' parts they could modify stuff. Vintage Rio appears to have taken the chest part of the torso, carved out a space, and then carved all the detail. Same with the thighs. Then doors were added, guns glued on and that's his action feature. Correct? Did Rio have the 'twist to punch' feature? I'm assuming that went away due to that hollowed out chest.

So today, Modern Rio, we have the 'no action features!!!' edict. An edict that the 4H did their best to work around, to at least give SOMETHING to the people paying $25 for a $10 toy. I seem to recall that reversed shoulders notwithstanding most were generally pleased that Roboto had his gears.

OK. My thought was Modern Rio would get a glued on part to depict his chest flap, the rest would be paint apps to a standard MOTUC buck chest. Mattel went with armor vest. A vest that is 100% new tooling. This allows for a functioning chest flap (as was made) but there clearly wouldn't be room for that giant blaster so it had to be fitted after. OK, groovy.

But then 'new guy' came in and saw that 'NO ACTION FEATURES!!!!' edict and nixed any concave or opened part of that chest armor. Or maybe Mattel shifted the actual engineering to the Chinese factory.

Whatever happened, didn't Toy Guru have to sign off on it as Brand Manager?

See? All this would have gotten my post deleted. :)


there are so many better ways it could have been handled that it's almost criminal.

to me, i see an issue in that, the horsemen proto actually didn't answer this issue, unlike so many other cases where the proto is the right way to do things and then engineering muddles those up. to me, i think the guns should have not been removable, the right was to do it was to make interchangeable pieces... if they could engineer interchangeable panels for the eternian guards, why not use a similar technique here? the figure didn't require that much deco, i hate when TG tries to use that as a justification for something, any piece that you're skimping on the paint for doesn't require deco, so for example, the backpack, takes material to cast, but no deco. the guns, if they'd been interchange panels, would have required deco, but less tooling, and could have been smaller masses because the panels were one piece. then everything would have laid flat, everything would have been bristling when you wanted it to, happy rio fans all around!

except for the vizor on the backpack (and really, i'd have loved to see that thing painted, but of the forgivable sins, that ranks the most forgivable for me) that could have sat lower, and evidently, there's a video on mint condition customs that shows how to fix the backpack for the vizor comes down. it's not a hard task at all.

BTW, one small note, my beef with noisy's review of the figure i can see not getting adequately explained out there, and honestly, it escalated the more i felt attacked, but to sum up...

i think there are some very cool details, like the rivets on the crotch flap, the stitches of the chaps, the addition of spurs, that kind of thing, that got totally glossed over, and treadaway does the same kinds of things on figures he sculpts, so trying to say i'm being unreasonable, or i want a look that is unprecedented, or that those two were in some way the champions of the "way motuc ought to be" was crap. he-ro's proto didn't have all those rivets, but rio's actual figure DID have the same splayed finger grip... those "arguments" were personal, there's no defensible factual data to back them up, and that's how i felt, and still to a measure feel. you have to ignore an awful lot of sense data and empirical evidence to construct the fantasyland from which they were launching their POV. but back to rio himself, there's no mention or praise of those details, ok... but then he mentions the spy magician fixes for rio. i didn't know there were such a thing. did all of you? i'd have loved a link to that, wouldn't you? i do feel like there's some duty on the part of the reviewer to be more than an opinion, and usually noisy is head and shoulders above that duty... but not in this case. if he hadn't pressed the issue, i'd have likely let slide my disappointment in this review on the whole, as i completely understand the stresses and pressures he's under at the moment... then again, as someone who's borderline OCD, a baby represents so much friggin chaos... maybe i don't actually know the stresses he's under... but i sympathize. had the whole thing not turned into an attempt to corner and browbeat me, i'd have let things slide like i have the last 3 months of half assed reviews, but this time, he pressed, so i explained my position. that's not the way to get the best from me, but then, cornering and browbeating an adult is not a very productive method to accomplish much. especially when that adult is me. all that aside, i think a case could easily be made that rio is indeed a line highlight, and time will soothe the butthurt and make the figure far more cherished. it wouldn't be the first time.
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby NoisyDvL5 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:58 pm

dayraven wrote: i'd have let things slide like i have the last 3 months of half assed reviews


I don't know that you're in a position to let anything I do slide, but thanks.

Listen, I feel like you were being a butthead to Ero because he attacked something you liked, plain & simple. If he had made the exact same comment about Ruben & Mattel, I don't think you would've batted an eye, so the forcefulness of his rhetoric is not an issue, it was solely where it was directed. I find no richeousness in that. I'm sure you have an answer as to why it's different, you possibly made it prior. I do not see it.

Ero's post shouldn't have been made. Everyone knows that. Even him. Though that's not because of anything you said in earnest persuasiveness - you let it fly, showed your demons, and drew out his bad side which he later recoiled from. It was kind of like a troll vaccine.

Had I gotten to it first, I would've made my own attempt to dial back the rhetoric despite he & I agreeing in the central kernel. Instead you unloaded, also pooped in my house, and, to me, out trolled him & became the bigger clean-up. I was willing to pull to merits initially, but you kept bringing up & insulting Ero. And much like I find you to be a cool FanEx guy. He was a cool Critical Mess guy.

Could I have handled it better? Of course. All three of us could.
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby NoisyDvL5 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:32 pm

dayraven wrote:BUT that said, i fired him a congrats note this morning, as the wife's water broke and they're in the hospital at the moment so baby is IMMINENT!! i'm incredibly happy for them both and hopefully, he'll have far better things to do than sit around here chatting about some stupid toys for a few months. maybe we're get some bleary eyed late night posts when he's up and can't sleep, those are always fun.


Thank you. Wife & baby are doing fine, though still joined. It's slow going despite the late night water break. Hopefully some news soon.
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby Tochiro » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:45 pm

NoisyDvL5 wrote:
dayraven wrote:BUT that said, i fired him a congrats note this morning, as the wife's water broke and they're in the hospital at the moment so baby is IMMINENT!! i'm incredibly happy for them both and hopefully, he'll have far better things to do than sit around here chatting about some stupid toys for a few months. maybe we're get some bleary eyed late night posts when he's up and can't sleep, those are always fun.


Thank you. Wife & baby are doing fine, though still joined. It's slow going despite the late night water break. Hopefully some news soon.


Long births are the worst for all concerned. Exhausting.

I wish you and yours all the best, Noisy. Go get some sleep and eat a sandwich. :)
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby Beedo Sookcool » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:03 pm

Tochiro wrote:The vintage Rio was released near the end of the line. By this point Mattel had plenty of tooling of the 'buck' parts they could modify stuff. Vintage Rio appears to have taken the chest part of the torso, carved out a space, and then carved all the detail. Same with the thighs. Then doors were added, guns glued on and that's his action feature. Correct? Did Rio have the 'twist to punch' feature? I'm assuming that went away due to that hollowed out chest.

No, the Vintage MOTU line was making so much money for Mattel by the time they got around to him, Rio Blast (and most of the figures from 1986 onwards) got all-new, unique tooling. And you're right in that he didn't get the twist-punch action because of the hollow torso.
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby Tochiro » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:09 pm

Beedo Sookcool wrote:
Tochiro wrote:The vintage Rio was released near the end of the line. By this point Mattel had plenty of tooling of the 'buck' parts they could modify stuff. Vintage Rio appears to have taken the chest part of the torso, carved out a space, and then carved all the detail. Same with the thighs. Then doors were added, guns glued on and that's his action feature. Correct? Did Rio have the 'twist to punch' feature? I'm assuming that went away due to that hollowed out chest.

No, the Vintage MOTU line was making so much money for Mattel by the time they got around to him, Rio Blast (and most of the figures from 1986 onwards) got all-new, unique tooling. And you're right in that he didn't get the twist-punch action because of the hollow torso.


OK, good, thank you!

My theory was based on the idea of there being multiple molds for basic buck parts to meet demand. It would be cost effective to take one of those extra molds and 're-purpose' it via additional carving. This would be much cheaper than creating a brand new 100% tool.

Vintage Rio, was there any detailing INSIDE the chest cavity? Were there 'walls' blocking off the inside? This is just me wanting to learn at this point. :)
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby Beedo Sookcool » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:16 pm

He had a dedicated compartment in his torso, and a bit of detailing in his chest cavity, but not a lot. You can get a good look in this image:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dNpjc_7maI0/U8KjekbScjI/AAAAAAAAJ4A/dXs3bWgIP8s/s1600/IMG_7294.JPG
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby dayraven » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:52 pm

NoisyDvL5 wrote:
dayraven wrote:BUT that said, i fired him a congrats note this morning, as the wife's water broke and they're in the hospital at the moment so baby is IMMINENT!! i'm incredibly happy for them both and hopefully, he'll have far better things to do than sit around here chatting about some stupid toys for a few months. maybe we're get some bleary eyed late night posts when he's up and can't sleep, those are always fun.


Thank you. Wife & baby are doing fine, though still joined. It's slow going despite the late night water break. Hopefully some news soon.



man, our first, i was still working overnight's at fedex. and i got a call from chan at about 4 in the morning that her water had just broke. she was going to get her bag together and come to pick me up, but i FLIPPED! i got all my stuff done in about 35 seconds, clocked out, and started walking towards the main drag that i knew she'd be coming down... about a mile from the industrial park where the office was. i was half a block from the street when she pulled in, very calm and casual. we'd done all the pre-prep stuff at the hospital, but i figured she'd be in a hurry. she was not. we got to the hospital, got taken to our room and checked out by the doc and stuff by about 6:30, and then... the wait. she was in labor for 17 friggin hours but the climax was really only about an hour between pain killers, attempts to push, decision to c section, and removal of spud. the rest of that was me scoring a brief nap and then waiting patiently and fielding relatives.

just sayin', you might be there a bit yet! [smile]
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