In thinking about the MOTUverse...

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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby Beedo Sookcool » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:17 pm

Found that fanfic about Keldor's split-swords in an old Weapons Pak post. Thought I'd reproduce it here:

He-Mullet wrote:While there is no official name for them, my Fan Continuity uses the following back story for them Keldor Blades.
Ancient Gar legends spoke about the Holy Warrior who would cleanse Eternia. He alone would travel across the world looking for the gods and proving himself worthy of carrying their swords:
The Light Sword of Creation: Zoarin
The Dark Sword of Destruction: Sh'Gorahtta
The wielder of the god blades shall transcend the powers of Good and Evil and cleanse Eternia from its endless struggle. He shall be known as Dengen-Jin (roughly translated as Person of He)

Keldor had a replica of these blades made in order to lure followers for his rebellion against Miro.
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby dayraven » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:58 am

i like that. damn, how did i miss that?
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby dayraven » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:34 am

that d bag in the comments section of the rio review had that coming... i had to edit about 4 times over to make it as civil as it is.
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby Beedo Sookcool » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:00 am

Well, I chimed in as well, mate. I'll back you to the hilt, because Vintage Nazis piss me off royally, too. Also, that guy has royally pissed me off in the past, as well. Some people on the MattyCollector BBs, I can disagree with vehemently, but still respect them and not even dislike them. Not that guy.

My attitudes are about as rigid and inflexible as they come without some form of severe psychosis, but even I ain't that bad. Primarily because I can see we've got potential for vast and awesome scope in MOTUC, and the Vintage Nazis are trying to make everyone else live with their narrow, blinkered, impoverished take on the property.
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby dayraven » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:34 am

it doesn't help that noisy is himself backing the guy, while simultaneously not appearing to have actually read what the guy wrote... i responded more acutely to the chap, let's hope that offers some clarity.

i just think that to use words like "aesthetic" when the review itself glosses over most of the actual design choices is beyond short sighted. noisy said it himself, his expectations were not in line with the toy he got... but that's on him, not djordje, not me, not you, not anyone else. he has to manage his own expectations. rio is not a surprise. the design was seen a while ago, and there are a lot of smart choices on the figure that add to the personality of the piece, most of which were glossed over in the review. that doesn't surprise me, noisy is all about expectations in his reviews, and sometimes that's more manageable for my psyche than other times... this times, it pinches my nerves. the expectations had 8 months to fall into line with the figure we were getting. the QC issues aside, you should have "expected" the figure you actually have in hand now and given that figure a fair review based on the in-hand experience, not on champagne wishes and caviar dreams.

and therein lies some of my frustrations. i feel like noisy is overly responsive to his own expectations in this case, and it being overly critical... and then ero takes it a country mile further with statements about dereliction of duty, and a mission of classics. there was never a coherent mission, there's no promise, or even a whisper of a slavish devotion to the vintage toys, or the first one wouldn't have been king grayskull with a removable head. the line is literally defined by doing things differently than the previous two lines did, and for people to still harp on the idea of motuc as vintage embiggening (i know) is just stupid. they're not complaining about the knee hinges, and those aren't vintage...

and like you might see, i called noisy out on this. he wants his way in a way that leaves him a defensible opposition to the things he doesn't like personally, and a defensible appreciation for the things he likes personally, even when the two run on contradictory criteria. how is that a coherent viewpoint? "i want a vintage heavy figure, cuz i don't like his different head... but i don't like his vintage-style hand grip, and i want something different" no, you don't get to do that. you don't get to be for something right up until you're against it. or at least, don't come at me with that kind of attitude and expect anything other than passing disdain.

like you said, a lot of the choices djordje made, for me, and apparently for you, add a life and vitality to the figure, he has a character, as opposed to merely being one, and has a sense of some imminent vitality. no stepford figure here with glazed expression and neutral tonality. now, there are QC elements that lack, the puffy armor is dumb, and that's a totally valid complaint. but that head sculpt is friggin awesome, dampened only by a slightly thick application of paint. no one pointed out the thing i asked evilmike, if he's got shotgun shells on his belt, why doesn't he have a shotgun? THAT might be a valid design aesthetic critique... and they glossed over that in order to create a "sculpt that's too expressive" argument? i actually read that, "too expressive" because he doesn't have "his feathered 'do from the 80's" why, the poor guy can't get a haircut in 30 years? what is he, obi wan kenobi? how can that be a detail that bothers you, that the character got some updates on the original figure's look?

despite the case noisy's trying to make about treadaway setting a precedent, he-man wasn't a straight upscale, neither was man at arms, neither was mer-man, neither was trap jaw, they all had new elements and new choices made, more options made available, etc... and that's been FINE the entire time, except apparently, when it's not. no one critiques djordje's sculptural detailing on scare-glo,for example. we were getting 200x pack-in updates, right up until the vintage only hags came out of the woodwork, and then we lost those for a while... but we still get some, and when we've gotten them, not only are they generally well received, but they're often djordje's work. what exactly is the complaint against? then dude had the nerve to point out how well he-ro came out... despite the fact that treadaway added a lot of detailing elements, rivets and texture sculpting, that didn't appear in the magazine shot of the proto! i'm tired of the double standard, one standard is enough to live up to, thanks. [smile]
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby Beedo Sookcool » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:23 pm

Am in complete agreement, mate. Especially when it comes to vintage prototypes. Do they want Eldor to come packaged with an actual twig taken from outside, just like the vintage proto photo? Some things are best left back in the 1980s.

Now, granted, I don't have either of my Rios in hand right now; they're still en route. But if those arm-guns really do project away from the arms and hands as much as they do in one of Noisy's shots, I'd say that was worth having a moan about. (Having said that, though, it seems to be a faithful reproduction of the Millennial version, whose hand is held away from the gun, in a sort of web-slinging position.) But the hands as they are? They're just a more realistic version of the originals.

And to be honest, I've had the same hairstyle for the last 20 years. Would've been 26, but I had a brief ponytail phase in college. Except now, I've got noticeably less hair to style. But I like the new MOTUC style for Rio better. The old one looked like a Marlboro Man (or possibly Tom of Finland) character from the 1970s.
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby dayraven » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:31 pm

some of the fault of the tone certainly lies with me, i don't measure my words when i'm peeved, i let fly, and i've done it enough times in front of and on noisy that half the time he doesn't even really read what i write anymore, he responds whilst conducting copious eye rolling and assuming i'm making the same points i always make, so like, when i use exact quotes, he has a tendency to gloss over that in order to make his point. and i own some of that reaction because i don't slow down and be precise from the get go, when he is actually willing to read. i present a case, then if it gets refuted, i go into quotation and fact finding mode, and if i did that from the get go, i think he'd be less apt to knee-jerk my posts.

but then, fully half the time, the people i find myself in internet clashes with aren't interested in that anyways. if you quote them, they respond that you're changing the topic... that bugs the crap out of me, but it doesn't make my POV any less valid or accurate, it's literally an intellectual circle jerk. i know most of the time i shouldn't bother at all, but man, it vexes me to no end to let idiots rant ad infinitum even if their viewpoints only prove them idiots. i can't mark twain them and be content in their exposure. to me, it validates a flawed perspective not to speak up in opposition. i yell at litterbugs too, and yell out my windows at starfruit drivers. the only people i tend to be delicate with are food service people. them, i approach with attempts at tact, since i know precisely how easy it is for them to exact retribution for their own mistakes. everyone else, whether real world or cyber self, i tend to call people out for their careless attitudes or self-destructive behaviors. it's part of my personality, i don't suffer fools.

back to the point of this thread though... would you like to see the rest of rio's posse get brought into the mythos? i sure would! i want to see the rest of the Laredans, hell, i'd give them their own spin-off! wild west space cowboy is not an entirely new idea (bravestarr much?) but it's a damned fine one, especially if you cover the idea of things going to hell while rio is on eternia, and then he returns, with the masters in tow... that could be some cool shiz right there.
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby PrfktTear » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:44 pm

I think after five years and what, 150+ figures our "expectations" should be in check by now, but I'm in the club where Rio just does not meet my expectation. There are some really nice elements of the figure but I don't believe the design/style is the same that would have come from this line if it had been released within the first 2-3 years.
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby Beedo Sookcool » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:34 pm

I tried typing out a big, long counterpoint, and it got too rambling and very angry.

I just don't understand how anyone can complain about a bit of windswept hair not fitting in with a line that contains robots and mostly-nekkid barbarians and space pirates and space cowboys and demons and lemon-lime gorillas in S&M gear and rocket planes and cyborg dinosaurs and animal men and little floaty blue elves and WHAT THE HELL IS ALL THIS? all under the same brand.

I liken it go getting a whole pack of Reese's Peanut Butter Cups when you're out trick-or-treating, then complaining you didn't get a couple of carob-coated dried apricots.

Suffice it to say that I will probably never understand it, but that doesn't stop me from getting more uncontrollably furious with every such post. And it makes me furious with myself that it makes me furious, because I think of myself as a semi-reasonable person intelligent enough not to drool all over myself when Velcro-ing my shoes on before going to work, and yet I just. Don't. Get it.

In the words of the philosopher Popeye, "That's all I can stands, I can't stands no more."
". . . cross me, and you'll soon discover that beneath this playful, boyish exterior beats the heart of a ruthless, sadistic maniac."
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Re: In thinking about the MOTUverse...

Postby Tochiro » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:49 am

I'm very bothered by what happened in the Rio Blast review discussion.

I cut Noisy a lot of slack, what with new baby on the way and all, and it IS his house in the end, so if he feels the discussion has become uncivil or otherwise disruptive, I can't really fault him for 'kicking everyone out' yet it does still bother me.

And I'm a sidelines kibitzer, having no actual skin in the game, right?

Still, I think what derailed the whole thing was calling out actual people for what is felt to be sub-par work. As long as a generic 'blame Mattel' vibe was going on it seemed OK but when specific names got thrown about, it seems to have become too personal.

I had a comment in the Space Skeletor thread vanish because it seems to have been too mean spirited towards whatever it is that passes for Mattel's QC over in China. In the Rio thread I would have called attention to WTF was going on that got that stupid 'flap' that doesn't even close. Seriously. THAT WAS APPROVED FOR MANUFACTURING. It didn't 'just happen' like reversed shoulders.

I think something major, something big happened in 2012 that just f**ked up all kinds of stuff. (Green Lantern cough cough) and new people (cheaper, clueless) got put into various positions.

I'd talk about Rio Blast in specific and I need help from the collectors on this, either support what I'm talking about or spell out my mistaken assumptions, OK?

The vintage Rio was released near the end of the line. By this point Mattel had plenty of tooling of the 'buck' parts they could modify stuff. Vintage Rio appears to have taken the chest part of the torso, carved out a space, and then carved all the detail. Same with the thighs. Then doors were added, guns glued on and that's his action feature. Correct? Did Rio have the 'twist to punch' feature? I'm assuming that went away due to that hollowed out chest.

So today, Modern Rio, we have the 'no action features!!!' edict. An edict that the 4H did their best to work around, to at least give SOMETHING to the people paying $25 for a $10 toy. I seem to recall that reversed shoulders notwithstanding most were generally pleased that Roboto had his gears.

OK. My thought was Modern Rio would get a glued on part to depict his chest flap, the rest would be paint apps to a standard MOTUC buck chest. Mattel went with armor vest. A vest that is 100% new tooling. This allows for a functioning chest flap (as was made) but there clearly wouldn't be room for that giant blaster so it had to be fitted after. OK, groovy.

But then 'new guy' came in and saw that 'NO ACTION FEATURES!!!!' edict and nixed any concave or opened part of that chest armor. Or maybe Mattel shifted the actual engineering to the Chinese factory.

Whatever happened, didn't Toy Guru have to sign off on it as Brand Manager?

See? All this would have gotten my post deleted. :)
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