DC Universe: Club Infinite Earths

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Re: DC Universe: Club Infinite Earths

Postby twofisted » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:57 am

I for one am relieved that the sub is not going thru. I've been really forgiving when it comes to Mattys handling of the sub....BUT its gotten harder and harder. I found myself less able to overlook design flaws, whether they be paint or articulation. I found myself really getting tired of massive parts reuse, especially when the sub is touted as "high end". I'm fine with the sub and by extension the line ending. I have an enormous collection of my favorite DC characters.

I will bet you a quillion dollars that we DCUC fans will be treated like the JLU fans now. We're going to soon hear from Matty and how they will be releasing the "final figures!!". They'll be double the price and of COURSE they'll be in ultra limited quantities sold ONLY on a specific day. We'll then be treated to planned announcements of "GOOD NEWS...we've decided to tool another figure!!, but ONLY if the previous figure sells out!!". Matty will then try and shame us into buying more figures we dont want in order to produse figures they claim arent fully tooled. Mark my words....Matty will drag this thing out for the next couple years. Teasing and creating false hope and brow beating us into extending DCUC by purchasing just......one......more....figure. I'm sure some of us have read all the venom that comes from the JLU fans over how Matty treated them the last couple years. Matty whipped them into a frenzy every month for at least 2 years selling 3 packs and 7 packs and threatening to not sell already manufactured figures if the last 3 pack didnt sell. I know all this because I bought every damned JLU figure!! hahaha
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Re: DC Universe: Club Infinite Earths

Postby Freefire » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:41 pm

JamesLynch wrote:Maybe that's what Mattel needs to try. Instead of monthly figures are a premium price at the quality of retail efforts, with 98% parts reuse, let the 4H go to town and design an amazing figure maybe once a quarter, and let them throw everything into it. Articulation, accessories, paint apps, unique sculpts, interchangeable parts, etc. Then get the manufacturing to support the quality of the prototype. Collectors would pay a premium for honest-to-god collectible quality figures.



I would certainly break my rule of no other DC line for such figures the only problem I have is that at that rate, after two years or more we'd maybe have the big 7 of the JLA? I love DCUC so much specifically because of the depth the line has covered. And I dont have a problem with smart part reuse if that makes it happen.

In a perfect world the DCU would be popular enough that it could just continue at the stores with a decent budget for more tooling but that doesnt seem to be something Mattel and even more importantly Warner Bros cares to see happen.
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Re: DC Universe: Club Infinite Earths

Postby twofisted » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:40 pm

Thats one thing I cant seem to wrap my brain around. Despite everybodies hatred for New52.....DC is as big a property as Marvel is. Any time I step into a Target or TRU.....the aisles are filled with Marvel, Star Wars, Transformers, WWE and all points inbetween. Why is DC constantly treated like a small time independant? WHy can a company like Hasbro load up the toy shelves with product....sight unseen, yet DC/Matty seems always so cautious?!? They can only release DC related toys thru a subscription system?? Its as if Matty wont put out ANYTHING unless they're assured that every single figure will be sold.

I'm not sure if its just an all around mishandling by Matty with the DC property or not. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Mattel has put some pretty inferior product compared to other companies in the last couple of years. The "kid centric" Dark Knight toys were awfull and continue to collect dust on shelves as are the Green Lantern movie toys. Did Mattel put THAT MUCH money into those lines that they're reeling from the loss of money?? Are they now SO gun shy to put out anything DC that they can only think to continue scraping that Batman barrel?? I'm at the point now that the only answer is that Mattel still to this day just flat out dosent know how to market the DC property.

Now when we look at the pix from SDCC of what Mattel is offering....its now abundantly clear that Mattel has completely given up on their adult collector and are going back to all "kid centric" toys

Looks like if you want DC action figures that arent geared towards children that come with rocket launchers and neon colors.....yer gunna have to turn to DC DIrect
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Re: DC Universe: Club Infinite Earths

Postby dayraven » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:36 pm

and judging by the recent turns at big lots, they're not selling out even under those rules...

i would argue, not contentiously, but here goes, that DC is not anywhere near the property marvel is. marvel has succeeded on a level that DC has not. DC has effectively marketed 2 of it's superheros, and the rest are easily dismissible as C and D list characters, as far as public awareness goes. i'm not arguing the quality of the characters or storytelling here, simply market penetration, just to be clear. conversely, marvel has 4 that are just simply in the collective unconscious, and a litany of B listers that is maybe an additional 6 or 8 names deep, and by the time you get to C and D listers, you're looking at a roster of 20 or so media properties.

simple example, look up video game sales of the marvel vs capcom games, any one of them, compare that to the mortal kombat vs DCU game... and keep in mind that MvC3 was released against CoD:black ops and STILL posted bigger numbers in it's first month of sales.

that said, with a more aggressive marketing campaign, and no stupid world shaking, history re-writing nonsense to muddy the waters, do i think DC could present more of it's lineup for public consumption? hells yes. the rest of the world, the non-geeks... they need to know that superman has more enemies than lex luthor and zod. [smile]
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Re: DC Universe: Club Infinite Earths

Postby timh_iat » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:45 pm

twofisted wrote:Did Mattel put THAT MUCH money into those lines that they're reeling from the loss of money?? Are they now SO gun shy to put out anything DC that they can only think to continue scraping that Batman barrel??


I did read somewhere that Green Lantern movie characters undersold and were overproduced, and afterwards the retailers weren't enthusiastic about buying the Green Lantern Animated Series toyline, and supposedly this contributed to Cartoon Network axing GL TAS.

I didn't collect JLU, but followed TG's antics with the last six or nine JLU figure boxed set that couldn't decide whether it was sold out or not.

And, yeah, DCUC is slipping well behind the new waves of Japanese action figures. Square Enix is rolling out the DC figures at $50-$80 a pop. The figures are unmatchable by Mattel, though the Enix figures do feel like one-shot display pieces rather than a toyline you collect and assemble teams from.

But yeah, why didn't Matty propose smartened up $30 figures and see how the "theromometers" played out?
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Re: DC Universe: Club Infinite Earths

Postby timh_iat » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:01 pm

dayraven wrote:that said, with a more aggressive marketing campaign, and no stupid world shaking, history re-writing nonsense to muddy the waters, do i think DC could present more of it's lineup for public consumption? hells yes. the rest of the world, the non-geeks... they need to know that superman has more enemies than lex luthor and zod. [smile]


Didn't DC have some of this penetration during the heyday of the JLU cartoon? Wasn't Jon Stewart becoming a "name" until DC discarded all that capital to revive Hal Jordan?

It's as if DC gets annoyed when the "wrong" characters become popular, then DC strangles the character, and appoints an old classic that only die hard groupies like Geoff Johns remember.
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Re: DC Universe: Club Infinite Earths

Postby JamesLynch » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:14 pm

I think there a number of reasons Marvel's done better at retail than DC. The biggest factor would be the movies. Until the Iron Man movie, he was pretty much considered a B-list character. Now, he's bigger than Superman.

Another problem is brand synergy. With Marvel, especially in marketing, there's almost an "everything counts" mentality, so they'll produce figures of whatever floats their boat. Back when Marvel was putting out mid-budget films that could support their own figure lines, they'd toss Blade, Punisher, or Daredevil into Marvel Legends. And they'll put comic figures into movie lines. As timh said above, DC seems to want to dictate to collectors which characters they'll love. It's the Microsoft mentality, "You'll want to buy what we tell you you want to buy." The problem is, Mattel/DC doesn't have the market cornered the way Microsoft does.

Another reason might be that Hasbro, and Toy Biz before them, actually has more modern experience in action figure manufacturing and marketing. I remember when Mattel first got the DC license, and reading interviews with their teams about how they needed to figure out how to make and market action figures, because their entire boys product line at the time was Hot Wheels. Their previous attempt at getting back into the figure aisle was their 2002 MOTU line, which they managed to run into the ground. And then they ran their Batman line into the ground. Yeesh.

I don't know, it's late and I'm rambling here, and there's a chance little of this will make sense in the morning. All I'm saying is, if there's a sense that DC/Mattel seem like a small time operation, it's because they've turned themselves into one. Neither one has great relations with the fans right now, or has shown that they are willing to put out a quality product on a consistent basis.
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Re: DC Universe: Club Infinite Earths

Postby dayraven » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:29 am

i would contend, as it regards the PAK line, that something like it, including smart parts re-use, but a heavier emphasis on detailed sculpts and intricate articulation, produced at a smaller scale (maybe try a NECA and scale items into a seven inch "collector" scale?), and distributed online directly via "all-in" sub with NO exceptions, could well revitalize mattel/dcu as a figure concept... but according to recent mattel logic, each would figure would cost $179.95 and the schedule couldn't possibly be understood or adhered to because the chinese are wacky. but i do think there's a market there, absolutely.

i still struggle w/ iron man, personally. i loved the RDJ movies, and i know he's elevated IM into a much more mainstream status than he has enjoyed previously... but in my day, iron man was easily relegated to B list status, and i want to see more than 5 years of IM attention before i move him up to A list... Cap has been Cap since before our parents took their first extra-uterine fart. wolverine has been hot since vietnam, so has the hulk. spider-man was hot before artificial fibers were the norm. IM has no track record to speak of to qualify as A list where i sit. give him another decade, or two, and we'll see. but like yeah, when i am tallying the B listers, daredevil, the punisher, ghost rider, are all on the list, but so is tony.
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Re: DC Universe: Club Infinite Earths

Postby Lay Ze-Man » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:08 am

I'm totally with James' idea.

I'd go $50 towards such "adult collector-y" DC figs masterminded by the 4H.

The buck thing has its place, and it worked for the time, but it really wore out its welcome in a hurry as of about Wave 13-ish, and got coffin-nailed IMO via the glut of Lantern stuff.

It's just too far to fall when you start your line at $50 to get three unique figs and three buck figs, and a few years later you're charging $30 for a new head.
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Re: DC Universe: Club Infinite Earths

Postby JamesLynch » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:17 am

dayraven wrote:i still struggle w/ iron man, personally. i loved the RDJ movies, and i know he's elevated IM into a much more mainstream status than he has enjoyed previously... but in my day, iron man was easily relegated to B list status, and i want to see more than 5 years of IM attention before i move him up to A list... Cap has been Cap since before our parents took their first extra-uterine fart. wolverine has been hot since vietnam, so has the hulk. spider-man was hot before artificial fibers were the norm. IM has no track record to speak of to qualify as A list where i sit. give him another decade, or two, and we'll see. but like yeah, when i am tallying the B listers, daredevil, the punisher, ghost rider, are all on the list, but so is tony.

Honestly, before 2000, I wouldn't have put Wolverine on the A-list.

I look at the "listings" of comic characters in 2 ways; the collectors market, and the mainstream audience.

In terms of the collector's market, that's awareness and appeal to comics collectors. Wolverine is absolutely A-list on that market, but then so is Iron Man. Iron Man's had an ongoing book since before Vietnam, and is a mainstay member of the Avengers.

In terms of mainstream appeal, basically I ask myself, "Would my grandma know who this guy is?" My grandma knows who Iron Man is, though not much beyond "he's a guy in a red and yellow suit of armor." That's what I'd call B-list. To be A-list, someone like my grandma would have to not only be aware of the character's existence, but know some details about them (secret identity, base of operations, supporting cast, etc. That's why Superman and Batman are firmly A-list, because everybody and their mom knows they're Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent, and they know about Robin, Lois Lane, Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, Jimmy Olsen, etc.). But she had no idea who Wolverine was before the X-Men movies. Wolverine got a lot of attention in the 90s with the X-Men animated series, but Iron Man also had his own animated series and accompanying figure lines in that same decade.
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