Infinite Legends Have you seen them yet?

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Re: Infinite Legends Have you seen them yet?

Postby dayraven » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:47 am

got the allfather wave off amazon... to be completely honest, i think that was my last marvel legends purchase. although they debuted a lot of cool looking product at toy fair, some VERY demanded characters, i've just been very unhappy with the quality of the last several waves. even in figs where i feel there have been improvements, like the hyperion buck, the materials are soft, the joints aren't particularly tight, or even necessary fit well together, and i can't get past that. i know the look has improved, kind of, but i don't think the QC is there...

and on the subject of how they look, the fwoosh had a very interesting article about upgraded legends and getting rid of your old ones... i have this sneaking suspicion that given 10 or 15 years, those discarded toy biz/early hasbro legends are going to be much in demand, partially because they gave us artist specific versions, partially because so many were used as custom fodder that there not nearly as many extant in the world as we might think, and partially because i suspect the modern era hasbro figures are going to be lumps of unposable goo in that time. i don't mean plastic degradation, though i suspect some of that will happen too, but i think the joint integrity is going to just fall apart over time, to the point where no joint, load bearing or not, will hold up. elbows and knees won't stay bend, shoulder will flop lifelessly to the sides, and legs will damned sure not hold figures up. hell, i have issues w/ some figures standing now, ankle pivots and all. but also, aesthetically, while the fwooshers are quick to diss the large shoulder and hips balls on some legends as unsightly, take a closer look at your favorite modern legends. there are swirley plastics all over the place, mold lines and knots where bits were taken off sprues and not adequately cleaned, and there are a TON of pieces where the sculpted new parts for a figure don't match up in sculpt detail, or even anatomy, to the buck parts being reused... my favorite expression of this is on the much beloved bucky cap body, where the calves below the boot cut and the hips at the thigh rotation NEVER match up, not even kind of... today, that's fine and forgiveable, but trust me, on any kind of timeline, that'll be the next white queen diaper. the picture in particular that cemented it, that they took, was the ditko spidey next to the new uber spidey... the bland, generic spidey, who gave us all the spidey bits we could ask for, but simply put, feels gummy and soft and like cheap regrind plastic, while the ditko is likewise gummy, but not nearly as, and holds his poses better. his hip balls are, to me, aesthetically no worse or better than the oddly flared U hips we're seeing on the spidey's now.

another example of this was the purchase of blastaar. this is a character i've wanted in legends since about wave 3, and i finally got him... and his pants don't match from thigh to calf, he's built on a movie hulk body out of, somehow, even softer plastic than the hulk has, except where you'd want it, on the hair, so he loses the already limited pose options of the ball post neck. why doesn't this buck has a hinged ball like hyperion? why isn't the hair/head made of the same soft material the arms are? they did the same thing with sentry, the "upgraded" sentry on the hyperion buck, by not using the soft plastic in the hair, you lose the posability of the neck, one of the biggest leaps forward for that buck because a flyer could finally look forward in a flight pose. and they starfruit on that. they did it to both thor's as well, hard plastic neck leather, and hard plastic tyler mane mane, and you get a pair of thors with virtually no head posability at all.... and that's an upgrade to what toybiz was doing? really? cuz i can turn sasquatch's head, i can turn bearded sentry's head AND position it up or down, i can even turn omega red's head, side to side and up and down... there will be photos coming to see examples of what i'm talking about...
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Re: Infinite Legends Have you seen them yet?

Postby JamesLynch » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:20 pm

I don't have problems with lose joints on my current Legends. I have the opposite problem. The gumminess of the plastic seems to make the joints not want to turn as smoothly.

Plastic issues aside (I hope you're wrong about your predictions of doom, DR), what I've found off-putting about the Legends lately is the rampant parts reuse, and using painted detail when painted detail simply does not suffice. I get that reusing parts is necessary to keep costs down these days, but there are many areas where painted detail does not hack it. In the most recent wave alone, there's the Captain Marvel with the painted on gloves and boots (hilariously, part of the reason for the new costume was so that it would look more substantial and less painted-on) and the Iron Fist with the painted-on segmented gauntlets. Paint just does not cut it there. I can maybe excuse the painted on chest/shoulder pattern on Captain Marvel, but the gloves and boots? It does not look right at all. And you can't tell me Hasbro wouldn't get some more use of out glove-top forearms and boot-top shins. I could probably even let the buttons being just dots of paint go if the gloves were voluminous.

It just feels (and this is not unique to Hasbro's Legends, but many mass-market toy lines) that the quality keeps going down while the price keeps going up. I'm paying more now for toys that I'm less happy with than I was in the past. While I can't say I'll be swearing off ML and the like for good, I've become more of a cherry picker than in the past. I can recall the Toy Biz days of finding a new wave of figures and gladly scooping the whole thing up at once (of course, the figures were only $6-8 a piece back then, there were usually only 5 or so figures in a wave, and they came with pieces to build a 16-18" BAF). Nowadays I look at new stock (when I can even find it) and see a new head on a body I already own ten times over, with a BAF piece that I'll need to get 6 more figures I don't even want just to complete, and I just don't feel the love for the line like I used to.
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Re: Infinite Legends Have you seen them yet?

Postby Tochiro » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:43 am

So I guess I'm late to the game, huh? Teh Lein is already turned to suck and is dead in the hearts of many? Oops. :)

I'm afraid I have to just keep buying my limited interest, the collecting of Marvel Movie Universe figures. See, it started with the 'Winter Soldier' Black Widow. Stumbled on her when that line was fresh, had to grab it. So that lead to 'strike suit Captain America' and that's where I stopped. Then Noisy went and posted a review of Machine Man and being a big Jack Kirby fan I had to get it, and was happy I found it in stores. (Now it looks like he might be the 'peg warmer' of that series. Jokes on me I guess! :) )

I had forgotten about the S.H.I.E.L.D. 3-pack announced some time back but a sudden blurb at Topless Robot filled me with urgency, and WHAM I was on the Toys R Us site faster than anything ordering it. I figured it would be instant scalper bait and I would never find it on the shelf. And THEN I see the 'Thanos' wave of ML has three Marvel Movie Avengers, so *click* Amazon and I get THEM, then I figure I needed a WW II Cap (Winter Solider line) when I found a lone example at Target, and now I look and see those Walmart Exclusive Avengers figures are crazy price now so I have to hope for 'mass' reissues of Thor and Hawkeye, and I assume they'll be making Vision and Scarlet Witch and...

And I decided that I wanted to build Thantos after all so I ordered Batroc and Hellcat and I don't even want them but...

*sigh* I'm doomed, aren't I?

Anyway, yeah, the joints do feel kind of 'gummy' and I fear ripping the pegs. I can't tell if Iron Man's neck has motion or it's just REALLY stuck. How come Nick Fury got two pistols and neither Black Widow or Maria Hill got any? And blah blah. :)

(funny thing on that 3-pack? For some odd reason the bubble for Coulson has a REALLY DEEP indent in it, almost like it was supposed to have a secret accessory or something. Wonder what the story on that is?)
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Re: Infinite Legends Have you seen them yet?

Postby PrfktTear » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:52 pm

Maybe now is a good time to get in? Get easy pickin's and benefit from anyone rage quitten teh lein!
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Re: Infinite Legends Have you seen them yet?

Postby JamesLynch » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:04 am

Tochiro wrote:Anyway, yeah, the joints do feel kind of 'gummy' and I fear ripping the pegs. I can't tell if Iron Man's neck has motion or it's just REALLY stuck. How come Nick Fury got two pistols and neither Black Widow or Maria Hill got any? And blah blah. :)

There are two pistols in the tray, and Fury's only got one gripping hand/holster, and Hill's got one gripping hand, so I kind of assumed they were each supposed to get one. That's how I have them displayed, anyway, and how I've mostly seen others displaying them.

I won't say the line is dead, nor will I say I'm quitting it, but I'm a lot less enthused for it than I've been in the past, simply based on the shear laziness/cheapness of many figures. I think I chronicled my gripes pretty thoroughly above, so I won't get too in depth with it again. The movie figures tend to turn out much better than the comic figures, because it seems like more effort is put in, especially when it comes to new parts. The movie figures tend to be almost 100% new parts, and that's necessary. The comic figures tend to reuse parts even when repainting old parts just won't hack it, and it makes them feel cheap. At $20+ per figure, I don't feel at all like I'm getting my money's worth out of most comic-based ML figures. I used to be an all-in kind of guy. Then I was a "begrudgingly buy the figures I don't want to get the parts for the BAF because I've already bought most of that wave anyway" kind of guy. Now I'm a "get the movie-based figures for sure, and maybe begrudgingly buy some of the comic-based figures because I love the character so much, even though it's really a pretty sub-par figure" kind of guy. Even a great BAF won't always get me to buy in. I'd love an Odin figure, but the only character out of that wave that enticed me to buy is Captain Marvel. I'm not laying out $100 on figures I don't want to get the parts to build one that I do.
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Re: Infinite Legends Have you seen them yet?

Postby Tochiro » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:55 am

OMG! Discussion! It lives! It lives! :)

OK, Fury's two pistols, he does have two holsters, a drop-down on his right thigh and a shoulder holster under his left arm.

I'm pretty sure that 'trenchcoat' part has been around for awhile. I'm guessing there's a 'buck' for a figure wearing a coat, because Fury's arms are kind of odd, his left is really...he can't bring it close to his body, shoulder holster or not. So, I tried it without the coat, no difference. He looks OK but the arms are of course now a bit wonky because the 'sleeves' are more coat looking than rollneck looking. Then I had the idea of taking off the shoulder holster and while it doesn't help the left arm artic whatsoever it kinda looks better.

Maria Hill, her head looks disproportionate, somehow. Like Black Widow, she can't stand on her own, thank goodness for Bandai Tamashii Act IV bases. :) I guess females don't need bicep swivels. Interestingly enough, Hill's holsters are attached to her belt. She's not just a repainted Black Widow with a different head (the obvious, and super lazy way to do it), she's got maybe 50% new sculpt. Her joints are the gummiest and scare me to death.

Agent Coulson is a guy in a suit. That's all he needs to be. Interesting, his tie is a separate part, not molded on and painted. His jacket doesn't hinder his artic as much as you would think. I think his BFG isn't quite B enough. Both heads look all nice and Coulson-y. Wow, his neck has some amazing range of movement... OK, I think I know what they did. I think at some point it was considered to have a 'Coulson stabbed by Loki' figure but it got nixed. His body almost defaults to a "I've been stabbed in the back and can't get up" pose.

Wish I had Noisy's skill. This set cries out for a photo review.

Hey, I just noticed something really weird. Hasbro seems to use metallic paint for eyeball deco. huh.
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Re: Infinite Legends Have you seen them yet?

Postby JamesLynch » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:21 pm

Well I'll be. Fury does have two holsters. Of course, Hill and Fury do still have the one gripping hand each, so I'm keeping things as is.

My Hill is standing rock solid, and has been for almost a week, as has my Fury. Which is weird, because Hill has the tiny feet, and Fury's got the pre-rocker ankles, but both as standing fine. Coulson, on the other hand, toppled after a couple hours. Maybe he'd be able to stand a bit better without the destroyer gun, but I want to pose him with the destroyer gun.

The Fury mold, I think, originated as an Ultimate Nick Fury in one of those TRU two-packs that sort of filled the gap between Hasbro's two iterations of ML. He was paired with a WW2 Ultimate Cap and had a comic-based head (kind of. The comic art was very clearly just Sam Jackson, the figure was just a bald black guy with a goatee). It was also used as MCU Fury in the Walmart exclusive Captain America: The First Avenger 6" line that never made it to my area, and was used for the comic-based Red Skull in the Captain America: Winter Soldier series.

Cobie Smulders has a pretty big noggin', so I don't think Hill looks too bad in terms of proportions.
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Re: Infinite Legends Have you seen them yet?

Postby Tochiro » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:54 pm

Good stuff, James, and thank you. I seem to recall that Fury's 'coat' was also used for a white Spider-Man whatsit. :)

Maria Hill looks better out of the box. I need to buy more Tamashii stands.

Hey, help a brother out. My new ML Iron Man, is his neck supposed to move? That piece sure looks like it's a separate piece, and the head balljoint doesn't have the usual 'forward/back' hinge (or does it? I can see lines.) and I'm at a loss on what to do to safely 'free' that movement, if it's meant to be. Is this a case of 'put it in the freezer' or 'get a hair dryer' or what?
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